Schiit Bifrost 2

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by RobS, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. schneller

    schneller Acquaintance

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    I appreciate the offer. I am looking forward to finally getting back to a Headfi meetup soon, my first since the pandemic.In such a setting I would hope to compare LIM and BF2/64.

    That said, there is no substitute for listening to equipment within your own chain, in your own room. I mean I could order and demo LIM and BF2/64, and return one or the other I suppose. The issue is burn-in, which would not be an issue with someone else's burned-in equipment. Is burn-in possible within the two week Schiit return window? That still leave the warm-up issue. These DACs need to be powered on for days to get their best results.
     
  2. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I don't have experience with the new BF2/64 board (yet), but I do not recall the original BF2 taking much time to settle in, in comparison to something like Yggdrasil after swapping boards. LIM boards seemed to settle out after about 3 or 4 days, whereas the A2 boards didn't regain the liquidity/smoothness in the upper midrange until at least a couple weeks after powering down to swap the boards.
     
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  3. Grattle

    Grattle Friend

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    Do you know or have you heard of anyone who has upgraded their OG Bifrost 2 to use OPA1656 opamps like was done with the Modi Multibit? I'm a bit surprised that the Bifrost 2 wasn't built with the newer, betterer opamps to begin with. Since Schiit says that the same opamps that power the balanced out power the SE out, could the Analog Devices opamps just be for servos?
     
  4. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    They probably have a test jig setup and it passed so there wasn’t a follow up visual inspection
     
  5. Crow9891

    Crow9891 Rando

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    I feel that in BF2/64, the balanced output has noticeable difference compared to SE output (SE is slightly warmer sounding, more similar to OG BF2 sound that I used to hear)

    Is it just my placebo?
    Because back then when I use OG BF2, I can't tell the difference of balance vs SE
     
  6. caute

    caute Friend

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    Is there enough data to quantify a meaningful sonic difference between the TI chips vs AD chips alone, or do the differences in implementations—4 chips vs 2 respectively for the Bifrost, and the massively different Bifrost 2/64 and LiM/MiL power supplies, internal reclocking, analog stages, etc.—make it impossible to answer with any, even caveated, definitiveness?

    For the 2/64 vs two Gungnir A1s that I've heard (which incidentally both sounded different from each other; one had a grayer background and seemed more liquid), I heard a higher level of cohesiveness, better technicals (treble extension, "refinement", perceived resolution) more blackground from the 2/64, but less emotional engagement than either Gungnir.

    I'm wondering if the older Analog Devices chips overall have a more involving, musical (though I've heard the LiM is very "musical", which makes this question so hard), emotionally engaging sound vs the new TI multibits.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
  7. Wilewarer

    Wilewarer Facebook Friend

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    If you wanted to talk about inherent differences in the chip you'd need more audio products actually using it, but my understanding is that the AD5781 and the TI DAC8812 are not primarily used for audio products. Read the datasheets and "listening aids for music obsessives with money burning a hole in their pocket" isn't on the suggested applications for either one. I'm not even sure there are any non-Schiit audio DACs using these.

    What people collectively seem to know about the inherent sound of, say, the AKM4490 is really from there being dozens of products out there using them that often come out sounding a lot like each other, but even then a lot of that could be designers making similar implementation choices. Like, I have 2 4490 DACs around that don't sound the same.
     
  8. Grattle

    Grattle Friend

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    The reference design listed on the TI product page has this blurb:

    This MDAC based state variable filter offers highly accurate digital tuning of gain, center/cut off frequency, and quality factor. This circuit provides three separate filter outputs: low pass, band pass, and high pass that can be accessed simultaneously. This circuit is suitable for a broad range of applications requiring accurate digital filter tuning from audio to industrial and more!

    https://www.ti.com/tool/TIPD160

    Edit: Added link.
     
  9. Beefy

    Beefy Almost "Made"

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    But the DAC8812 also has an SPI interface rather than the almost-universal I2S. So I think the comment "not primarily for audio" is pretty accurate.
     
  10. Cebuboy

    Cebuboy Rando

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    Hi, anybody experienced having their BF2 suddenly exhibit loud humming/vibrating noise, like that of an electric razor? The output is gone as well. The lights are still on and can select the different inputs. But no sound output. I do notice that the relay no longer clicks. It just went like that from normal operation.

    Curious as to what caused this, BF2 bought last Sept 2020 and just being used sparingly. I figure this has something to do with the internal transformer. Any insights is appreciated.

    Already got an RMA so will be sending this back.
     
  11. Wilewarer

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    Somehow I feel like the 2/64 boards just... sound better now, after about 2 months. Or rather the whole chain, but that was the most recent thing to change. Hard to describe, other than "nothing sounds annoying or obviously lacking" (not a claim that this is perfectly neutral or perfectly resolving). Not quite sure when I noticed it, maybe a week ago.

    I feel like this is burn-in change, but would these really have that long a burn-in?
     
  12. SnowPuppy

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    Curious about this because my Bifrost 2/64 is only about a week old. At the beginning, it had a dry sound with a good deal of sibilance. After about 35 or 40 hours that is all gone. Very happy with the sound quality. If the 2/64 continues to get better then it is truly an amazing DAC especially considering the form factor. Already is really.
     
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  13. schneller

    schneller Acquaintance

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    I wish there was a detailed comparison of BF 2/64, the latest Gungnir MB, and Yggdrasil LIM...
     
  14. Empyah

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    Honestly, dislikes for shitposting aside - just save up for the Yggi instead of wasting money
    on buying yourself through the priceclasses, Yggi is almost as good as it gets, so good that I do not have the wish to further pursue "betterer" DAC's. Try the OG and the LiM and be done with it.
     
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  15. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I was just about to post that the sibilance had improved after a 1+ month break from my rig (general burnout, lack of time due to baby, disappointment with the upgrade resulting in lack of enthusiasm for listening). Very interesting that you also had a similar experience.

    Sibilance is still more pronounced than OG BF2, but not piercing "reach for EQ" or "rip headphones off head" like it was before. I thought it was just my ears/brain, possibly recovery from baby-induced sleep deprivation making me hyper sensitive to sibilance earlier. The sibilance is still there, just not as piercing. I can also still hear the improvements from the upgrade. Will continue to monitor the sound over time.

    My upgrade boards had been powered on for at least a couple of weeks when I posted my first impressions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
  16. pure5152

    pure5152 Friend

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    I don't know about needing a month of continuous on-time to burn away any sibilance, but for me the treble harshness/sibilance/slight veil went away in about 30-40 hours of continuous on-time just like for @SnowPuppy and no longer proved bothersome at all. I've had it on for over two weeks at this point now, and it might have gotten slightly smoother in the treble/more open, but at either rate it's a _much_ subtler change than from the first 30ish hours.

    This was for the bifrost 2/64 board for an existing bifrost 2, not for a new bifrost 2/64 though. I think schiit tends to burn in their amps/dacs for 24 hours before shipping out to customers, but I'm not sure if their upgrade boards are burned in like that. Just speculating, but maybe that might account for some anecdotes here that the upgrade boards need longer burn-in time, as they might not have come burned in at all?
     
  17. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Yeah, I'm more inclined to put it down to ear/brain change and sleep deprivation recovery than hardware burn-in. Just found it curious that someone else had a similar experience.
     
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  18. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    I'm not sure my 64 got less bright but it definitely got more refined in the upper mids and up from day 1 to day 4.

    The treble is slightly elevated but it also too smooth In my system, I still crave that Sabre bite from time to time :D
     
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  19. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    I cured this with a Modius E as my secondary dac. Works like a charm as a different flavor to Gungnir Multibit, which is still not going anywhere anytime soon.
     
  20. SnowPuppy

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    I have compared my Yggi OG with the 2/64 on headphones with Lyr+. I was using the Yggi single ended output. I do find that the Yggi has more resolution but am pleasantly surprised that the 2/64 is fairly close though different. Unfortunately the Yggi does not work as a desktop DAC for me. As a desktop DAC I am very pleased with the 2/64. I like it so much I just bought a NuPrime CDT-9 CD Transport to go underneath it. I picked that one also because it's desktop friendly and should stack neatly underneath the Schiit stack. AudioAdvisor honors, if you mention it, the price shown on the Nuprime website for bundling the LPS-212 power supply.

    I have not compared the Yggi and the 2/64 balanced on my two channel system. I find that I can evaluate the differences between DACs better through my speakers. Hope to do that comparison at some point.
     

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