Schiit Sol Turntable Sneak-Peak

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by purr1n, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. tranq

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    Because of density? A dense platter wouldn't ring? Ideally? I would imagine material plays a roll in that? Wood or plastic of the exact same form/weight/density wouldn't ring because of the different material properties.

    Or is it something else?
     
  2. tranq

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    Again I'm a noob, but to me I thought the ringing was a good demonstration of how free floating or uncoupled the platter was from the rest of the TT, room, table, etc. I thought that was a desired quality in a TT. Means the bearing & packing are doing a good job of isolating and supporting the platter.

    Think of plucking a guitar string. It rings until it stops or until you press your finger on it.

    Same with a bell. Rap a bell with something and it will ring if free floating. Press and hold something against the bell and it stops.

    Again, I'ma noob. Please educate me if this thought is wrong.
     
  3. SnowPuppy

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    A platter that rings like that could potentially pick up vibrations from speakers and ring and thus color the sound. I have a Pro-ject "The Classic" TT and the machined aluminum platter is TPE dampened which helps though it does ring some. If the aluminum platter is thick enough then ringing can be greatly reduced. I am hoping the final SOL cast platter does not ring as much. I would personally recommend a good leather or cork mat for a metal platter (leather my fav due to low static). That should pretty much take care of the ringing. I would stay away from felt mats due to static and less dampening. Now even though aluminum will ring I still prefer it to other materials like stamped steel or acrylic. All materials have their advantages and disadvantages. The SOL platter could be a very good one to start out with and it has good thickness for price. Also if SOL allows good adjustment in the height of the tone arm you could upgrade the platter. And just so you know I have high hopes for SOL. The verdict is still out and have not read reviews or tried it. But from what I can tell so far it will be crazy good for the price. I like how it does not come with a cartridge or a cover. I have learned over time that I will almost always not want a cartridge that comes with the table but instead pick my own. And a cover is just a resonance antenna. when attached to the TT. I like covers that you can complete remove easily. Let's wait and learn more from the early reports, but I have a feeling it will be money well spent for those who love Schiit and are considering adding a vinyl rig to their system. I also anticipate that those who are not into Schiit gear will be drawn to SOL.

    And by the way if one of you decide to get the SOL and take a plunge into vinyl I would recommended the Nagaoka MP-110 as a starter cartridge. My Dad has one and I could not believe how good it sounds for a $110 dollar cartridge. I played the excellent Analog Productions Ray Brown Trio Soular Energy LP on his system with the MP-110 and it was hi fi glory on his Magnepan 3.7i. He has a vintage Denon TT. I would also recommend the Schiit Mani as a starter phono stage if you are new. I will be much better than most phonostages that are inside the amp or preamp. And the Mani sounds better than many stages under $1k. My Dad uses the Mani. The Mani will deliver the hi fi goods and as you learn more an more about vinyl you may want to consider something else. If I were starting over and only had about $1k to spend on vinyl rig I would get the Schiit Mani, Nagaoka MP-110, and likely the SOL pending what we learn. I also think the Pro-Ject Classic SB is a great TT option is your budget is $1500 as the cartridge highly regarded though I would still change it out down the road.
     
  4. SnowPuppy

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    Interesting observation on the free floating. It does illustrate that the bearing is working well and that the platter spins clean with no wobble. Check out the machined aluminum platters on VPI TTs at $2k and above. Notice that they are very thick and heavy and thus would not ring like that even with excellent bearing. And due to the platter weight more $s for the bearing. I can tell you are a intelligent person as many who come to this forum. Being a nood as you learn you will be fascinated with how complex TT design can be.

    You know some do not like all the work, care, and learning ones needs with vinyl. Some consider it a hassle and that is ok for them to prefer something else. To me the "hassle" is a joy. The labor instills pride of ownership. I enjoy cleaning a new or used records on my Record Doctor V. I enjoy keeping my vinyl rig clean and dusted off. I enjoy cleaning my stylus with Onzo regularly. I enjoy brushing off the dust and removing static from my records each time I play a side. The sweet sounds and holding that 12.5" piece of art make it all worth it.
     
  5. Thad E Ginathom

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    When it comes to sound, nothing is really uncoupled, because it is in the same air with the sound waves in it. Remember the tuning fork experiment at school? Two forks, same frequency, held by two different people ---"uncoupled." Get one singing, the other one sings too.

    An ideal listening room would have nothing in it that rings or even vibrates, because when anything in the music hits that frequency, it will join in. Potentially, noticeably audibly, although you may find it easier to hear than to find!
    I suppose all areas of hifi have infinite OCD potential, but vinyl has even more. This, however, is a matter of choice. Remember, not too many decades ago, it was all we had, and we put an LP on the deck with as much thought as people today click a song on the screen. It was no big deal. Perhaps the cartirdge, arm, deck, might have been better or worse. Perhaps one had in mind some deck that was really fancied but unaffordable. But mostly we just played the music. And I don't see any more need to turn it into a religion now than there was then. But then, I don't see the need for anyone who isn't already into it, to the extent of at least having a record collection, to have, in 2019, anything to do with it.

    I agree with everything you say about the physical experience of playing vinyl. I remember it fondly. And remembering it fondly is the way it will stay now :)
     
  6. Anonimar

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    I'm excitedly preparing myself for Sol - I'd like to make sure I have everything needed to get the turntable up and going. I currently have a pro-ject 6 perspex with Sumiko Blue Point Special Evo III as my first turntable, but looking to make the switch to Sol as it seems like it is potentially a much more 'audio quality first' type table, instead of a pseudo art piece like the pro-ject is.

    I already have a downforce scale, do you all have recommendations for a cartridge alignment tool? I'm seeing quite the spread, ranging from $10 protractors to much more elaborate offerings.

    Azimuth is fine to set via the 'mirror reflection' straight-line method?

    Do most people do VTA via 'eyeballing' it and tweaking it to their liking?

    Do most tables have different pre-set 'notches' to hang a weight from for different amounts of anti-skate like pro-ject does?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  7. Decomo

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    Thank you very much for sharing ideas and suggestions. May I know why you are against Acrylic platter? I thought that acrylic platter is better since it is similar material as records are made of. Genuine interest and plz help me understand on this one.
     
  8. SnowPuppy

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    All materials resonate. It is really just a matter of personal preference. I can't honestly say why I think aluminum sounds better than acrylic and I honestly have not heard them side by side enough to be sure. Too many variables. The truth is not all acrylic platters sound the same and not all aluminum sounds the same. To compare you need to have all variables match like cartridge and mats. Acrylic platter do not necessarily need a mat but you can use one. Aluminum needs a mat but different mats sound different. So are we comparing acrylic with or without a mat to aluminum with a mat. So I can't give solid reasons that will satisfy. So I will just speak philosophically based on some things I have read. Will need to be careful because this gets very involved and way above my level of current knowledge on the subject.

    From what I can tell there are two basic approaches to turntable design. One is to have lots of mass in order to isolate from resonance or vibration. The other approach is to make a TT of light mass and rigid so there is less than can vibrate and the vibrations dissipate as quickly as possible. Some are hybrids. Both approaches can turn out great. Rega for example takes the low mass high rigidity approach and makes great TTs. Look at the Rega line and you will see that their higher models have less material in the plinth. But one thing Rega does not what to loose is rigidity. You will notice that the RP3 and higher have a metal brace between tone are and main bearing. This is for rigidity. You can read their literature and find out why as I can't explain it as well. This rigidity trait is common good trait. Carbon fiber tone arms are known for being light but rigid for example. Aluminum platters are also very rigid. Acrylic platters are less rigid unless you increase their mass. Aluminum have more resonance than acrylic unless you increase the aluminum mass. The weight of aluminum is good for the the flywheel effect for better speed stability. I could go on and on. Compare the two excellent companies VPI and Clear audio. They both make great TT yet use totally different materials for their platters. Notice the more expensive models have larger platter thus mitigating the drawbacks of each material. But that is taken in the balance with all the other materials used as there are many variables outside the platter including what the TT sits on. So while it is a science it is also an art.

    You should read Michael Fremer's opinion of acrylic which he does not like as much. Based on what I have read from him and others I will use an analogy with tubes and solid state. Tubes can have more distortion than SS but its the so called pleasant harmonic distortion. Solid state can have less distortion but it is inter-modular which is perceived as harsh by many. So a platter may have less resonance but you may not like the resonance it does have. Also the very high end solid state and the very high end tube gear starts to sound more alike being neutral, uncolored, and transparent. I think we see this with TTs as well. The best TT on the market converge in quality though approaches may be very different.

    Hope that helps some. I am sure someone with more knowledge can find flaws in my understanding and I welcome their thoughts. I enjoy learning about this.
     
  9. tranq

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    My current tt is a cheap audio Technica with a cast aluminum platter and rubber mat.

    I'm looking at getting a fluance or orbit, with Mani as the pre.

    Sol is really appealing to me and I think the design looks pretty awesome. That being said, vinyl is an occasional hobby. I only have about 125 albums. I don't think I'll be buying Sol until Schiit rolls out installing cartridges and arms at the factory.

    I have an old audio Technica (early 80's) that I broke the needle on, as the needle came off when I pulled the needle guard off. Like the noob I am, I then removed the need guard before trying to press the needle back on to the cartridge..... Yeah. I'm dumb.

    I've been thinking about ordering a replacement needle or a different cartridge along with some tools to see if the art of vinyl is something I want to deal with.

    I'm looking forward to Mike's setup videos when Sol is finally released.
     
  10. SnowPuppy

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    Fluances are very nice IMO for the money and beyond. Can't go wrong with Orbit. I would not hesitate to get either of them if I had no TT. I have recommended both of them to friends. In the case of the Orbit I would get the acrylic platter if I could afford it. Do not know much about your AT vintage table but it may be better than you think. Seems like it would be worth replacing the cartridge and would be good practice. If it goes well perhaps it would give you confidence to put a cartridge on the SOL. If you were my neighbor I would tell you to get the SOL and I would help you install your cartridge.

    Don't forget that record cleaning is very important and I would personally at least get a Spinclean or a Record Doctor V. That said still other ways to clean effectively with less money just often not as convenient and sometimes more risky depending on method.
     
  11. Jalsar

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    Vinyl Vac is a cheap solution too (think I spent like $120 all together). I use a Spin Clean on old dirty records to get major dirt and grim. Then I follow up with a run through with the vinyl vac. Any new vinyl I get gets cleaned before it comes anywhere near my tables. I even have a quarantine area for my new vinyl.
     
  12. tranq

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    Yeah, my vintage turntable has some adjustable settings. I was trying to see if it had a preamp in it or not when I broke the needle. I had just acquired it from a friend's basement, and the owner of the house knew nothing about it.

    So I need a cheap needle replacement or cartridge just to check that out. There is no bypass, so I don't know if that means there's no preamp with it or not. The internet wasn't helpful.... I found a sales handout for salespeople, and a service manual online. But no mention of a preamp or not..

    I'm very much a beginner to vinyl. I have a record brush somewhere that I've never used..... I have taken a vacuum cleaner with the soft brush attachment to especially dusty records....

    I have read about people recommending washing records in dawn/water. But I don't want to wreck the labels so that's out. I'm sure someone here will advise various reasons why that's a bad idea anyway.
     
  13. Thad E Ginathom

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    It is now some years since I have even had a connected deck, but my advice is to use a microfibre cloth. Don't use one made for glass, it will have no pile, but also don't use one that sheds it pile, as that obviously just adds to the problem. Microfibre will lift dust from the surface. It will also, to some extent, remove grease even without any solution.

    You can easily find the recipe for a cleaning solution on the net. The ingredients are Isopropyl alcohol, water, and a drop or two of washing up liquid. The proportions can be found. Put in a small spray bottle.

    There is no need to clean records, other than dust removal, unless they are dirty.

    Please note that my vinyl advice (apart from the modern microfibre tech) is based in an age when we were just practical about this stuff, and may be considered vinylly incorrect these days. But it will work, and should not do any harm. Hey, in my childhood, I have removed jam from an LP with soap under the kitchen tap!
     
  14. SnowPuppy

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    Now that I have slept a more straight forward answer. I am not against acrylic it is just not my preference for the price point I shop at.
    Agree would not want to risk labels getting wet. The vinyl vac mentioned by Jalsar above will certainly work if you have a shop vac handy by your TT. I think that one cleans the record on the TT. Would want to make sure that it did not put resistance on the belt or motor. Honestly if you can muster up the money just get at least a Record Doctor V for $200. Does a great job. Then use a carbon fiber brush from audioquest or others for taken dust off for each record side you play. Important to learn to do this if you want longevity of your records. Not difficult once you get the process down.
     
  15. SnowPuppy

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    Good feedback. Agree no need to continue to clean records once they are clean. Just keep the dust off with a carbon fiber brush at each use. I only clean my records when I acquire them used or new. After the initial cleaning I have not needed to clean anymore.
     
  16. tranq

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    Good advice, I was under the impression vinyl cleaning was labor intensive and neverending. Good cleaning when acquired, and light dusting before use seems easy enough.
     
  17. Thad E Ginathom

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    I am not certain about this, but I think that those carbon-fibre brushes for LPs pre-date microfibre.

    I used to use one of those velvet-covered cushion things. They remove some dust, and move the rest around. Microfibre is hugely superior. And I believe it will probably beat any brush. In any competition, I'd put 5 rupees/cents/etc on microfibre to win.

    If you are getting the idea that I am a huge microfibre fanboy --- I freely admit it. From the car to the shower (including the record deck) I use nothing else. In fact I even use microfibre bath towels: no more cotton.

    Very cheap to give it a try :)
    Not really. There are those who obsessively deep-clean. It'd probably be great to have one of those machines if you buy second-hand.

    My beef with vinyl is that whatever I do, and however much care I take, clicks and pops are inevitable. The just seem to appear. I've met people who also played vinyl for half a century who say that, no, they don't. So... You might just get lucky, or just happen to always do the right thing. Or something!
     
  18. SnowPuppy

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    Those old velvet cushion things were a problem if not used correctly. I would never use one. Whether or not carbon fiber brushes predate microfiber is immaterial. That said I would not mind trying it with a product designed for the purpose.

    It is true you will never 100% remove all vinyl anomalies but you can make it a lot better if you take proper care of your records and your gear. I do lots of vinyl listening on HD800S and some Grado RS1 and all the all the flaws of any pressing are laid bare big time compared to even highly resolving speakers. Even with headphones I often prefer the vinyl version of a recording even with higher noise floor and a few pops. There is a certain naturalness, liveness, and dimensionality of some pressings compared to the digital that makes a few pops well worth it. For example my original pressing of Rush A Farewell to Kings is not in very good shape and kind of noisy. But it blows away my digital version. Even my non audiophile wife could clearly notice that.
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

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    Yes, it happens. I would cite my vinyl copy of Stephen Stills Manassas. I was excited to get a CD of it, but soon found that it lacked something. My own digitisation, faults and all, was a much more satisfying listen.

    There are albums where the mix is so different it is hard to believe it is the same recording.

    There are albums where the LP is better... and some where the digital release is. And some where there seems to be no difference.

    And there are albums where we have got so used to the imperfections that they become like part of the music, and it feels strange listening to a clean copy.
     
  20. SnowPuppy

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    Exactly, well put. When I got back into vinyl I got my old records I left at my Mom's house. Have every Led Zeppelin album on LP purchased in the late 70s and early 80s. I proceeded to wet vacuum clean all of them. Most of them were in great shape. My Dad taught me how to handle them. Some had mold and it clean right off pefectly. These LP sound wonderful. Have no desire to hear them on digital. Just too satifying to play on vinyl. More special and less mundane. The new digital masters and the vinyl reissues just are not as good.
     

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