Sensitive speakers for tube amps

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Cspirou, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    What kind of speakers can you use with low wattage tube amps?

    What I usually see are Fostex based backloaded horns or bass reflex. Are there some multi-driver speakers that work with tube amps? Compression horns tend to have sensitivities well over 100dB/W however I never see them recommended for tube amps. Is there a particular reason why I shouldn't consider a full range compression horn for a tube amp?
     
  2. JK47

    JK47 The Beer Houdini

    Friend JK47
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Dislikes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    "Surf City USA"

    Here's what I'm using rsz_1dsc_0066.jpg rsz_dsc_0067.jpg

    Fostex 168Ez in Madisound BK-16 enclosures. I found Changstar when I was googling for info on Fostex folded horn enclosures, there was a thread on them there. Marv has a set and started out with the lower model 166EN's, then upgraded to the thses Sigma drivers. He felt the EN's needed a super tweeter to get the best out of them, but the Sigma's were fine without (I agree, much better in the treble). I started with the EN's, but one was defective and I returned them for the Sigma's. The Sigma's are much better across the whole FR and worth the upgrade in my book (super tweeters start at $200 each). You may want the super tweeters to add a touch of sparkle, but it would come down to personal preference. Angling the enclosures up are a must to get the low end to your ears.

    My 8W per channel Elekit drives them very nicely :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
  3. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

    Staff Member Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,288
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NYC
    Not multi-driver, but the Omega Speakers are pretty well known and well regarded for high efficiency speakers. I've looked into getting them a few times but never really had the spare money or space in my room to accommodate them.

    http://omegaloudspeakers.com/home.html
     
  4. JK47

    JK47 The Beer Houdini

    Friend JK47
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Dislikes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    "Surf City USA"
    gld3ster likes this.
  5. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    Are the 168EZ really a drop in replacement for the 166en in the BK16? The driver is different enough to where I think you need to modify the box to accommodate it. But if you say it works then I'll have to investigate.
     
  6. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    jafnvaegi likes this.
  7. JK47

    JK47 The Beer Houdini

    Friend JK47
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Dislikes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    "Surf City USA"
    Actually the original design that Madisound copied somewhat was for the Sigma series...

    See my post on CS #216 and several following that provides links to a few Japanese sites. Nagaoka-san was the man when it came to DIY Fostex designs, and the Madisound BK series is almost a carbon copy of his work.

    http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,833.210.html
     
  8. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    You don't have to tell me twice! I have a speaker building book by Nagaoaka that a Japanese friend bought for me. I believe there is a speaker I saw that is similar to the bk-16 but angled so you don't need those supports.

    One day I plan to build his famous swans.
     
  9. JK47

    JK47 The Beer Houdini

    Friend JK47
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Dislikes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    "Surf City USA"
    Right on !!!

    Here's a pic of Nagaoka-san's D-3MKII.1... The only difference's are the bottom corner in the Madisound uses a single piece of wood to shape the horn just before the opening, and a brace just above it. Madisound use's 11/16 baltic birch plywood, while Nagaoka-san's plan's usually call for 22mm plywood. I'm considering getting the BK-20's...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. dubiousmike

    dubiousmike Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    186
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vintage klipsch is another good option. Depending on the model, replacing the cross-overs and tweeters with parts from Bob Crites makes for a wonderful upgrade. Love my legends.
     
    jafnvaegi and Cspirou like this.
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    43,317
    Dislikes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    It's nice to see someone else build the Madisound Fostex kits. My wife is starting to complain about the OBs. I might start on the BK-20 or maybe the Altec horns mated to 15" woofers.
     
    jafnvaegi and Cspirou like this.
  12. Meh

    Meh Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    33
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I bought the Omega 3XRS this summer and after using them regularly for about 2 months the treble still sounds "tinny" to my ears.

    This is using both a Rega BRIO-R and a Jolida Glass FX10 tube amp. Neither amp is high end of course so maybe a better amp could tame them.

    I used both an Yggdrasil and a Bifrost Uber for sources.

    Then again other people praise them so it may just be my ears and preferences.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    43,317
    Dislikes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    Put a 1-2" vertical strip of toilet paper behind the screen in front of the driver. Wide band drivers tend to have rising response that beams treble.
     
    jafnvaegi likes this.
  14. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    256
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cinnaminson, nj
    Klipsch are high sensitive but, I don't like them really too much. The only ones I enjoyed a bit are the fortes... Ev sentry (I believe they're call) were popular monitors that uses good wave guide design and are sensitive...

    Altecs are very sensitive but very large usually and can get expensive. They also come mixed and matched a lot due to massive studio,PA and theatre abuse they went through. Have to double check if all drivers are original and good shape usually. The horns might need redamping too and the rubber redone in the welds cause altecs are all large metal horns and altec lansing always made sure they're horns were well dampened and didn't ring when they produced them. They're one few horns that don't introduce coloration of it own if dampened well and has insane dispersion capabilities but, you'll gonna have to place them in well controlled environment acoustically to sound best.

    Due to how the 511/811 horns are made and disperse they're need very careful intention to placement and room interactions in my opinion...

    Lot of PA speakers in general are very sensitive too and there is lot of good ones if you know what you are looking for but, problem is aesthetically you might find them not suitable. Thing is while ev made great stuff then in the past most of their current PA stuff is not that great...lot of djs on budget use them and I never liked them. Some peavey stuff are better for the money. If going jbl I would stay far away from their eon line up...just crap. Jbl doesn't get good till you get to their touring grade stuff.

    Lot of older jbl stuff is great too and like altec lansing ( same as jbl in the past in way since it was a lansing brother who started jbl) made some very good and killer sounding theater and PA stuff. They still make awesome theater stuff today( talking bout for professional use, big movie theaters) but be prepared for heavy lifting and making room space cause like altecs they were huge and still make huge horns and bass bins. They still make lot of professional stuff for theaters and studio use but, are very expensive. And also lot of big jbl stuff beside theater and PA stuff are exclusive for Japanese and European market nowadays like the jbl everest. Altecs and jbls are adored and love among the Japanese people. Due to popularity of lot of crappy mini monitors(no offense to anyone. I like a few) and lot of tiny ht crap jbl lost interest quick with consumer and studio market. But, thank god jbl is coming back with large full size reference monitors again...altec lansing while mainly computer crap now I think temporary reproducing the famous a7's again to hi-fi world...anyhoo,

    Only home stuff I know besides older wharfdale,bozaks and klipsch are polk monitor series speakers that are pretty sensitive. I use to own a polk monitor 10 II with the silver tweeters(not peerless) and while I liked them I found them too hot up top and annoyed my ears a lot during lot of songs. They did have surprisenly good clean bass response though but, doesn't dig very deep. There is tons of crap in home and pro field to look for but, you have to find what suits your taste. Lot of home stuff back in the 60's, 70's and 80's were pretty sensitive in general. Also if your listening habits are not extreme or need massive headroom then you can get away using 10 watts with lot of speakers.
     
    Cspirou likes this.
  15. Meh

    Meh Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    33
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thanks! I'll try it and report back. 1-ply or 2-ply TP? :D

    (I see the pirate emojis are sneaking on to the new site \/)

    EDIT: I tried the tissue mod and it did make a difference, but the treble still bothers me. I think these just aren't for me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  16. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    256
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cinnaminson, nj

    Eminence drivers...you can get thoes pretty cheap price on any store selling pro audio gear. 64,000 for speaker pair is hefty price that uses a 200 dollar driver...
     
  17. dsavitsk

    dsavitsk Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    789
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Home Page:
    Most multi-driver speakers have builtin crossovers. Because a tube amp will generally have a higher output impedance than a solid state amp, the impedance of the amp can interact with the filters in the crossover changing the crossover points. Sometimes it works OK, sometimes it does not.
     
    Priidik and ultrabike like this.
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,217
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    So would you say that tube amps are more viable with multi-driver speakers with an active crossover instead of passive?
     
  19. dsavitsk

    dsavitsk Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    789
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Home Page:
    Possibly? I don't really know, and I think generalizations are tricky to make. But that is certainly one solution to that particular problem, when it's a problem. On the other hand, an active crossover is usually better than the one built into the speaker by the manufacturer, regardless of amplifier.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    43,317
    Dislikes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    It depends on the active crossover. I personally would not go for an active crossover that consists of a bunch of opamps chained together fed from a high quality source to feed high quality tube amps that power the critical midrange and treble regions.

    It also depends on the tube amp. Are we talking about flea powered SET, a 30 watt push-pull pentode, or a massively paralleled OTL?

    Finally, it depends upon what are your goals? Resolution, frequency response accuracy, good off-axis response, high SPL, efficiency, speed, extension at the extremes? Lots of trade offs and no easy answers or ultimate designs that will do everything right.
     
    jafnvaegi likes this.

Share This Page