Sensitive speakers for tube amps

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Cspirou, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    It depends on the active crossover. It also depends on what slopes and type filters you want to play with...

    it'll cost you bit more in long run too. You need two amps or more(depending what you want..2/3/4/5+ way,ect.), bunch of cables/wiring,ect.

    If i was actively crossover anything though i personally wouldn't use tubes personally. i wouldn't mix tubes and solid state either. Phase respone and impulse response can get little weird...

    There is more studying i think then spending on wanting to go active route. If done right you can get double the power and increase driver phase and sensitively compared to a passive filter. Cause no matter what passive filters saps up and dissipates unused power from the amp and cause loss in sensitively and damping factor. Thats why sometimes they suggest using an amp twice the output than the input of your speakers. Active can improve lot of things but it's time, space, and money.. It can be lot of crap.
     
  2. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Yeah, I guess this starts to deviate from my original post on finding a multi-driver that works with low powered tube amps.

    Although continuing this train of thought, I suppose one way to avoid opamps would be to bi-amp or tri-amp with a full range signal to each amp and have a passive crossover between the amp and each driver. Of course it would need a lot of DIY adjustment.

    Another is if you are using a digital source. You can do all the crossover work in the digital domain with a DSP and then output the digital signal to multiple high quality DACs (Bifrost Multibit, Gungnir Multibit, etc.) to feed the amps. I believe that TotalDAC does digital crossovers with this in mind, but at a really high cost. If Schiit can brainstorm a similar digital crossover solution with some sort of R2R ADC for analog input, I would be all over it!

    Although neither of these solutions would really be viable with a SE tube amp, except maybe for the tweeter since those can be really sensitive.
     
  3. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    Finding sensitive speakers not hard. I wouldn't pass up pa/theatre stuff either cause have the mentality thinking only purpose of them is getting loud and not working in a hi-fi situation. Most well design pro stuff is made to have lowest distortion and harmonic distortion besides high sensitivity. Only dowside of most of them is they're usually heavy and can be ugly looking but, everyone knows its not like they're trying win a beauty contest or impress on sight... There is ton stuff out there and not too hard picking stuff out to your taste on anything... Also if you don't care of rocking out or sitting very far from the speakers then even [email protected] work well. Also you never take room acoustics in mind. Lot of untreated rooms will add 6-15db gain at certain frequencies...

    But, yea.. Just look around and dont think too hard. I would just look around and see if can audition and have fun. You'll find something. If was me. I would just get speakers really want and then worry if i need a bigger amp or not.
     
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  4. Kamikazi

    Kamikazi Friend

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    How is the availability of Tannoy in the states? They've got a couple of pretty efficient speakers that we love to pair with tubes here. Fostex are also popular here with low powered amps. If you guys haven't heard of Unison Research, their Simply Italy valve amp is quite nice.
     
  5. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

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    I have Zu Union speakers (discontinued, but they were $2K shipped). It's a 10-1/3” full-range driver with a coaxially mounted tweeter (12KHz and above). The spec says they're: 99dB SPL @ 1W/1m , 8 ohm (nominal full bandwidth - 5.5 ohm minimum at 300 Hz).

    I use them with a 2-stage single-ended 311B amp that I refurbished. I really enjoy them.

    I would buy again from Zu. If I were buying now, I would strongly consider the new Omen Def Mk.II possibly with the Radian tweeter upgrade.
     
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  6. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    Definitely looking at Zu Audio, even if I might be getting a FirstWatt amp instead of a tube one. However, I've never tried tubes, maybe I'll like em?
     
  7. Kamikazi

    Kamikazi Friend

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    Definitely give it a try, I was quite surprised with my first experience. It's quite a nice presentation compared to solid state and remains quite well composed. Had to see it gave my Musical Fidelity 250W amp a good run for the money.
     
  8. Dr4Bob

    Dr4Bob Rando

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    I have a pair of Omega A8 speakers with the Hempcone drivers- really beautiful speakers with eerie precise imaging and an immersive, holographic soundstage with proper placement. The Cary X-Citer using KT-88s makes around 8-10 watts and can easily drive the Omegas to uncomfortable volumes in a small/medium sized room. Louis Chochos' speakers are really special single drivers and the cabnet work is worthy of a yacht interior.
     
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  9. dubiousmike

    dubiousmike Friend

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    I'm happy to see some more positive commentary on Omegas! I actually Just got my shipping notice from Louis on a pair of Omega Super 7 mk2 monitors this morning. By all accounts, they should pair really nicely with the first watt f3 clone in my office setup.
     
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  10. Dr4Bob

    Dr4Bob Rando

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    I am sure you will be more than satisfied with them- the f3 should play nicely with the Super 7.
    One thing about the drivers- they really go through a rollercoaster burn in. At some stages (about 25-50hr if memory serves) they were almost unlistenable being harsh and shrill with muddy bass. Mine really got good with about 100hr on them and continued to improve in every respect for another couple or three hundred hours.
     
  11. Lojay

    Lojay Friend

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    I've got a great deal for a Fostex Fe166en with backloaded horn enclosure (as per the Madisound specs). Hoping to drive it with the EC Studio but I have a flea powered Class D Tripath amp for now. What's the closest analogy to headphones in terms of the fidelity of the system? Not looking forward to playing large scale orchestral and don't really mind the lack of bass, but it would be nice if it has good resolution and imaging for quieter stuff.

    I'm using the DIYT2+SR009 and Teton+HD800/HEK as my reference point.
     
  12. Rotijon

    Rotijon Friend

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    Those speakers are lovely, you should try out these as well,

    http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/orca-3-inch-fullrange-pair

    They use the same drivers and sound just beautiful.
     
  13. Abraham Lincoln

    Abraham Lincoln Rando

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    If you have the room, ALTEC Model 19 are a great speaker for low wattage tube amps. I use a Poindexter inspired PP 6V6 with around 6 watts output. At 104db/watt/meter the M19s sound very good, top to bottom. They even work well with high powered SS amps.
     
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  14. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Second the Altec 19 or any of the Altec VOTT "junior" types. The Fe166en based speakers are nice, but the Fe168 Sigma drivers have superior resolution (but with slightly less well behaved FR). None of the Fostex stuff have will have HD800 type of resolution. You will have to go to Lowther or AER drivers for that kind of resolution. The Altec horns will come close in terms of clean low distortion, but still not quite there for resolution.
     
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  15. Lojay

    Lojay Friend

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    Thanks guys for the recommendation. I like the fe166en because of the relatively small size of the enclosure. I won't have space for the Altecs, which might be a problem for the more renowned horns. Would you say the 166en approximates to HD650 level of resolution?

    Happy Chinese New Year from Hong Kong!
     
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  16. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    No, FE166en will not be close to HD650 with Studio. The FE168 Sigma will be better. The FE168 sigma is also a small size. If you can, get someone to build a BLH for you using the FE168. If you can, the 8" FE208 Sigma is even better. That will be my next project... when I have time. My ugly open baffles need to go according to wife.
     
  17. Lojay

    Lojay Friend

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    Thanks Marv. Is it possible to buy the fe166en with BLH enclosure, and simply replace the drivers with the fe168 Sigma? I read somewhere that they are the same size.
     
  18. JK47

    JK47 The Beer Houdini

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    Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on Handmade speaker basic lecture (5) in the link below to get the D-3 MKII.1 half way down the page, and you will see where Madisound copied their BK series enclosure from. It was originally designed for the FE208EZ which is the 8" Sigma series.

    http://homepage3.nifty.com/spida/framepageeng-9.htm

    I originally found Changstar when researching Fostex drivers and folded horn enclosures. I had the Fe166en drivers in my BK-16 enclosure before following @purrin's advice and installing the Sigma drivers into the enclosure. The Sigma's hands down sound better. Albeit they are almost 3x the price...

    DSC52012.jpg DSC31642.jpg [Q DSCD3MK21.jpg

    edit: added pic's and instructions on how to get to page I was referencing
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
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  19. Lojay

    Lojay Friend

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    Thanks JK47. Seems like I will need to cut a wider driver enclosure as the 166en is 5" while the 208ez is 7". I better check with the seller.
     
  20. JK47

    JK47 The Beer Houdini

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    Don't cut it, just put the 6" 168EZ in the enclsoure. Madisound based their BK-16 (6.5" enclosure) and their BK-20 (8" enclosure) off the designs by Mr. Nagaoka. The two Madisound enclosures have completely different dimensions relative to the two different size drivers.

    Here's my set up with the 168EZ drivers mounted in the Madisound BK-16 enclosure.

    DSC_0172.JPG
     
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