Shouldn't the DT990 be technically superior over the DT880?

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Retskrad, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    Nope. 650 has better macro and microdynamics and is just generally more resolving.

    The 880 and presumably 990 resolve less than you'd imagine with that bright top end.
     
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  2. Retskrad

    Retskrad Rando

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    Interesting. I've had the DT990 in the past and I currently have the HD650. I find both headphones to output the same amount of detail and the only difference for me is that the DT990 shoves the treble in your face while the treble on the HD650 takes a backseat. That's why I'm curious if they are objectively on the same level because I find them to be different flavours but equally capable.

     
  3. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    What's the rest of your system chain?
     
  4. Retskrad

    Retskrad Rando

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    I have the Bottlehead Crack with the Schiit Bifrost.

     
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    LOL! Yup.

    IMO it was pretty bad.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  6. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I have found that some cans with treble in your face, can fool your brain into thinking they are more resolving than they really are. Not a fast rule to be sure. Started to feel that way back in the day with the K701's.
     
  7. Retskrad

    Retskrad Rando

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    Fair enough, that could be the case. For me personally I listened to the DT990's on low volume while on the HD650 I have to turn up the volume because that's how the headphone is designed. By doing this I found both headphones to be equally capable while simultaneously outputting two distinct flavours. Conversely, the DT990 sounds like a treble rave fest on higher volumes and the HD650 sounds lifeless when the volume is low.


     
  8. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    I think you summed it up the situation pretty well. DT990's on low volume, really low for me, sound good. HD650 need some more milliwatts to hit their sweet spot. DT990's just didn't work for me. 650's don't work for others. Depends on what you like.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  9. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    Could explain my soft spot for the dt880 as well.
     
  10. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    Multibit or the older types? I think that DAC should be good regardless. I had a Bifrost Multibit and Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2 for a while and neither of them gripped the drivers of the 650 the way the Mjolnir 2 does; a result of that is I can listen at lower volumes now without feeling that lack of "fullness". I imagine top tier amps would take this even further. I'm not sure about the crack as I haven't heard it, but I know Marv recommends the speedball addon. You may consider modding your 650 as well, it adds a considerable amount of clarity that helps with the volume issue.

    HD650 KISS mod: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hd650-kiss-mod.3440/
     
  11. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Most people don't give enough credence to how equal loudness contours change over volume ranges. Perceptually "neutral" (or whatever curve you're aiming for) at loud volumes is not the same when at low volumes, yadda yadda. It is perfectly reasonable to see how the DT990 can be perceived to be the "better" headphone at low volumes, while the HD650 overtakes it at moderate volumes.
     
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  12. Retskrad

    Retskrad Rando

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    Is it reasonable to think that beyerdynamic tuned the DT990 for low volume listening? The more you turn up the volume on this headphone, the more treble you hear and It drowns everything else out.

     
  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I will affirm with a double negative by saying that it's not unreasonable to think that... but unless you can get an actual response from Beyerdynamic, it's all just a guessing game.
     
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  14. Bagged Milk

    Bagged Milk Friend

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    Correct. DT990 and DT770 predated the DT880.

    What I also find interesting is that the pre 2003 variants, when equipped with the new beyer pads rather than the old style ones, sound a lot more like the modern stuff.

    I think Beyer decided to go for diffuse field in 2003 for whatever reason and just swapped pads out with ones that create 10k peakage.
    20 years late to the DF party, if you ask me.

    Now, some speculation on the interesting advent of Beyerdynamic Tesla technology. Everything went along fine until 2009, and all of a sudden Beyer felt the need to innovate. My thought is now that their old engineers behind the classics could very well be retired. With Beyer lacking the engineers to compete with Senn, they take the easy route and come up with a stronger magnet design to throw onto the old driver and try to redesign the damping and cup acoustics but completely fail in the process.
     
  15. Retskrad

    Retskrad Rando

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    At this point you have to question what Beyerdynamic is doing because they cannot seem to make a headphone that's both detailed and not troubled with treble spikes at the same time. The T90 is a perfect example of their troubles with the Tesla lineup. I have no idea how they made it even brighter than the DT990 and thought it was a good idea.

    Of course then there's the T1 which is less consistent in the treble than their old DT880 which is mind boggling. The T1 is basically a premium version of the DT880 and it's high-end price is not warranted.

     
  16. Pilsnerpunk

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    Maybe screaming banshee is the tuning preference of their engineers.

    Let's go brighter and see if our customers like it.
     
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  17. Retskrad

    Retskrad Rando

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    Speaking of Tesla and beyerdynamic's "failed"attempt at creating an improved driver over the DTXXX line, is it fair to say that the T1 is basically a premium version of the DT880 and should be below the $500 price point? Doesn't the T1 measure WORSE than it's younger brother?

     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  18. Bagged Milk

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    the only T1 I've used was a unicorn T1. At least, I'm fairly certain it was a unicorn.

    I was fully expecting 10k rape accompanied by unacceptable ringing but what I heard was clean, more to my liking than the HD800 tonally (had more presence in the 2-3.5k region than the hd800) and had less top end than HD800SDR. However, HD800 still had it beat in dynamics and res and was more worth the price tag considering that it wasn't just a one off rare thing and that it has consistency across units. With Tesla, if I bought one, I'd sure as hell want to listen before I purchase. haven't had the chance to listen to a DT880 yet. If I buy one I'll likely get one with original pads from the mid 80's.

    Hell, I might just get a early DT990 and 770 to round out the vintage trio. Would be cool to send all of them on a SBAF tour along with a dt880 2003 and maybe a few modern 770/880/990's.
     
  19. SSL

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    T1.2 that I heard was better than the DT 880 in some ways and worse in others. Given the premium materials and comfort, $500 MSRP would probably be fair. However, I would personally not pay any amount of money for it because I found the FR issues to be intractable.
     
  20. Retskrad

    Retskrad Rando

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    Fair enough. Personally I wouldn't buy any headphone above the mid-fi's of the world because you're already getting around 90-95% of what a TOTL will give you.

    A decent speaker will be superior to the most expensive headphone so I would just buy the HD650 and get a pair of speakers and call it a day. Both will cost less than single HD800 or a T1.

     

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