The Wonderful LTS v3 Moddable Headphone

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Marvey, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    [​IMG]

    I got my pair 3 days ago and will share some brief impressions after 5-6 hours of listening time. Firstly the build quality on these is insanely good. I have never been able to personally justify owning super expensive cans but holding these in your hands and wearing them on your head feels like a million bucks, they feel 'solid' and attention to detail is high. I got a lot of compliments on the looks already

    On sound, this is my first experience with the 50mm Peerless driver, I can see why it's popular. The driver has good sensitivity and performs in most areas with no obvious weaknesses. Tomislav's approach to acoustic design seems to make everything as inert and rigid as possible to allow the driver to speak for itself. This leads to a modern and matter-of-fact sound. The v3 would make really good open-back monitors, with a lack of ringing or smearing at any frequency.

    The tuning reminds me of early Beyers, with the small 3khz dip and early bass roll-off. The upper mid tuning shaves off a bit of bite without necessarily recessing anything. I listen primarily to indie and alternative rock so my general preference is the opposite of this, which is why I use HD600s most of the time.

    After reading Marv's initial impressions I asked Tomislav to tune my pair to be a little warmer/rounder in the bass. The roundness of bass transients on my pair is similar to HD650 though less in amplitude and extension. It's just shy in extension of what I would like for electronica and pop but fine for mostly everything else. Resolution is in line with what I would expect for this price point. Again, they remind me a lot of Beyer cans from the early 2000s but without the dirtiness and treble ringing. I guess this makes sense as Tomislav states the T1 is one of his references.

    Overall these are mostly-neutral and very comfortable headphones that are definitely worth their asking price. It's really hard to believe this is being done by a one-man shop, and I wonder what lead times will look like when more people learn about these. A few years ago when I wore headphones for several hours a day I would've killed to had something like these. Today, I only wear headphones for serious sit-down listening two or three times a week, and I will continue to reach for my (vintage) HD600s. I also have the LTS v1 but haven't listened to it enough yet to give any impressions.
     
  2. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    Glad to hear your impressions, and yea the tune on them is a tiny bit different than by default, with a bit more mid-bass focus rather than sub-bass.

    For electronic music and better bass extension, I'd suggest changing to the closed rubber plugs on the baffles rather than the config as is out of the box, that brings out the sub-bass exclusively without touching much else.
     
  3. Woland

    Woland Friend

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    Can anyone confirm if the LTS can use the same cables as Dan Clarke Audio / Mr Speakers? The connectors look to be the same, but with 2 wires and 4 pins the wiring could be different.
     
  4. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Good question. Did you search for the schematics? They should be available and I am sure that @Tomislav_L can compare with his own.
     
  5. 2chinzz

    2chinzz Rando

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    LTS uses the same type of plugs but from a different vendor ( hirose ). The pin outs are exactly the same. I purchased a balanced cable from audiophile ninja and have not run into issues.
     
  6. Woland

    Woland Friend

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  7. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    Yes, just to confirm, the cable pin layout for LTS headphones is the same as for DCA / Mrspeakers, or in fact any cable you'll find with these connectors, as long as they're wired according to the standard Hirose layout. The Hirose original connectors are also compatible with most of the aftermarket connectors, like the ones you can buy on Mrspeakers spare parts section, they're the same thing just made by Evalucon I think. In EU, you can buy them on the Audiophonics webshop too. Seems to me they're not that far off Hirose in terms of perceived quality and measure/sound identical, so it may be worth going for them over the originals for 1/4 of the price. Most aftermarket cables don't actually use the original made in Japan Hirose connectors like the ones on LTS headphones, which is understandable considering their cost.
     
  8. 7seven

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    If someone is ever in the position to test it It would be interesting to see THD and CSD impact of different amounts of damping on the rear port of the peerless drivers, to me it sounds like the driver attack/decay becomes shorter with more damping but sounds kinda bad, maybe higher 3rd order HD.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
  9. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Will there be as loaner tour eventually?
     
  10. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I'm working with LTS to set one up, but he's not quite ready yet.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    I forgot to mention, my LTS v3 can be put on a loaner. I've set them up with the medium sized ports and took out the damping in the back, which I feel will fit most SBAF preferences. Given the nature of these, there is a lot of adjustability. However, I do want to keep things simple for the loaner with the understanding that this is a baseline.

    PXL_20220209_160524410.jpg

    Loaner thread: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/loaner-lts-v3.11964/
     
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  12. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    I took a similar road but went with the less bassy port and 2 more adjustments, i really enjoy how easy it is to mod this, unlike others that just got me frustrated.
     
  13. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    These headphones are modifiable but I will only be commenting on the loaner as originally configured by Marv.

    [​IMG]

    Setups:
    Yggdrasil A2 (BAL) > Mjolnir 2 (BAL)*
    Yggdrasil A2 (BAL) > Jot 2 (BAL)*
    Yggdrasil A2 (SE) > Darkvoice 336SE (SE)
    Modius (BAL) > Jot 2 (BAL)*
    iPhone > Magni 3+

    *Cable supplied with loaner is 1/4 TRS and therefore I used 1/4 output jacks.

    General Comments
    The LTS v3 is a superb performer that matches or beats many Focals (edit 2/19: not Utopia. They're probably between Clear and Elex) in technical prowess but the bright highs and fast energetic signature may not be for everyone or synergize well with a lot of chains.

    In terms of physical attributes, the LTS v3 is an ace. Lightweight, comfortable and ergonomic, this is a polished, intelligently designed product. The headband adjusts easily and secures the cups with a perfect clamp. The bayonet lock system for the pads is perhaps the best interface I've seen, better maybe than the magnetic system on the Meze Empyrean. The velour pads connect solid yet remove with no effort at all.

    The LTS v3 scales very well with higher quality gear. Clarity on Yggdrasil A2 + MJ2 is excellent with no veil at all, making even HD800's sound muddy. The LTS don't stage quite as wide as the Senns, but their width and height is very natural being neither claustrophobic or artificially nebulous.

    They have a fast, upfront presentation that's reminiscent of Focal, but stopping short of being exuberant (edit 2/19: They might actually be more upfront). Mids are realistic and well articulated while the bass is textured, present, and at a tasteful volume. While lows don't extend like planar bass there is plenty of slam when paired with aggressive amps making percussion-heavy albums like Hok-Man Yim's "Poems of Thunder" just explosive. (Edit 2/19: They could do with more bass. They're good on my home setup thanks to MoffatBass on Yggdrasil A2 but most chains probably will be bass light.)

    Treble is where things become problematic for me. While having a neutral lack of tilt and otherwise good cohesion, there's some zippy peaks in the highs and they make genres like metal unlistenable. It's not murder like an un-modded HD800, but the LTS v3 is already thin bodied, so things spiral out of control when interacting with dry MJ2 highs or the generally dry Jot 2. They're brighter than my HD800SDR's and I can't play them at loud volumes for even short periods and they're very fatigue inducing over long sessions. But... don't completely judge them based on that. (Edit 2/19: They're brighter than Utopia, but more liquid. Utopia still king of detail and dryness.)

    I don't think I found the right chain for these. They probably need something like the dark-tilted LIM with an amp that's more liquid in the highs, maybe DNA Starlett. I suspect that would be tremendous, although output Z on the DNA amp might still be a little too high. Bifrost + Lyr 3 might also be a sane choice. Again, someone else will have to test those.

    The LTS v3 is amp sensitive. Their short date with the high Z DarkVoice OTL saw poor driver control, flabby bass, and overall dullness. Magni 3+ was crap also, with the best aspects of the LTS suppressed under the warmth of the little amp that was not quite up to the task. Moving up to Modius + Jot 2, things go a different direction of wrong with the DAC's brittle treble playing badly with the peaks in the LTS highs. The LTS have a low Z output and will drive an iPhone to good levels but really, I don't think these are iPhone headphones.

    Overall, the LTS v3 are super great performing headphones, but they need the right chain, or perhaps the right mods.

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
  14. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Update:

    Took the LTS v3 to TSAV today and tried out a number of different setups and also compared directly to Focal Mg and Utopia.

    Running everything on a Chord Hugo2 + M Scaler, technically, the LTS v3 is about on par with the Focal Mg. The LTS has a much brighter signature, less bass, is a bit more upfront, but doesn't have as many weird dips. LTS v3 timbre was less smooth and refined, but not far down the trough. I wish Clear OG and Elex had been available but they weren't. If I recall, I thought Elex sounded somewhat metallic, and I don't think LTS v3 is metallic.

    Next to Utopia, LTS v3 is suddenly seeming liquid and thicker, so the desert king of dry detail is still king. LTS v3 may actually come off brighter, even though Utopia beryllium is faster. If I had a choice between the two, I'd prefer Utopia, but at 4x the price you might expect that. The LTS v3 is still very detailed. Neither are my cup of tea, I'm more in the darker Focal Mg camp.

    For the heck of it, I also tried pairings with the Woo WA5, ampsandsound Mogwai (out of 32 ohm output), McIntosh MHA200 @ 32 ohm setting, and the fusion-powered Woo WA33. Any of those was a better match than MJ2 or Jot 2. I expected the MHA200 to be bloody awful considering how bright I found it when it first arrived but apparently the demo unit has broken in a lot since I first heard it and it was quite listenable. LTS v3 on WA33 was hair raising, not because of audio quality (which was pretty good), but the pot was so sensitive even on low gain I feared any small bump would cause SPL to hit the roof and take my hearing with it.

    Overall, my take-away was I may have underrated how upfront the LTS presentation is, but I still think I'm on point saying they are bright and kinda thin. I may have overrated the bass qualities and saying it could keep pace with the best Focals. I think it's probably above Elex and somewhere just under Clear Mg/OG.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
  15. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Got the headphone today, here are some stream of consciousness impressions.

    Initial conclusion:
    - Fix the ergo issues for me, tune it a little more for my preference in sound, and this would be a really good headphone for me. The closest thing I can think of in sound to this headphone is a modded HD800 family headphone or the Massdrop V2 HD800s. Not quite the same sound, but in the "same family" of sound and I think I would actually pick this with different tuning over a modded HD800s or Massdrop v2 HD800s.
    - I don't talk about the positives as much above as it's somehow hard to put into words for me with this headphone, but I will probably add more later once the words come. In short, it's a good headphone though.

    Setup:
    Computer > tos > YggA2 > Vali2+ > LTS. Vali2+ was run on low gain, contrary to pretty much every other headphone I have where I like it better on high gain. Will listen later with Stellaris, Holo Spring 2, and maybe the Liquid Crimson and note if there are significant changes beyond just what I typically expect with a different amp. No mods or changes were made to the LTS - although the thread title says moddable and it looks like the headphone could be tuned, we weren't supplied any tuning materials, so per loaner etiquette I'm assuming we are supposed to leave it alone.

    Sound:
    - It sounds like there is a bass boost / bump in the mid bass region. The bass is also sort of thumpy or hammery for me (a negative for me) - not in a strong bass slam or heft way like a good sub or well modded + amplified HE6 family headphone though (which would be a positive for me).
    - Could use a little more lower bass extension but the sound quality of the lower bass that is present is really good and somehow much more clear sounding and detailed than a lot of other "good headphones".
    - Sounds like there is a small dip somewhere in the upper mids and a small boost maybe around 7 or 8k??
    - Mids so far seem really smooth. Would be even better if there wasn't a small dip in the upper mids that sort of messes up the mids to highs transition for me. The highs as a whole are pretty smooth too.
    - Initially thought this was closer to bright if we take away the slight mid bass bump and thumpy-ness, but after more listening, it's more neutral / smooth in the mids, somewhere between neutral and mildly bright in the highs - I can't characterize the headphones as a whole as neutral or mildly bright though - somehow I'm still hearing the mids separately from the highs, not disjointed though.
    - Resolution is better than I expected for a headphone of this price and for the peerless drivers
    - Nice energetic sound without being fatiguing in the mids or highs for me, only in the hammery bass. fatigue from the bass never gets that bad though, like it starts to happen and then just is
    - I'm kind of a sucker for "fill" in the sound (best example I can think of is adding a middle channel to a 2ch system just to fill the sound in more) and this has a bit of it in the mids without having so much that the resolution and micro get a bit covered up. Contrast this vs many unmodded Audeze where there is a lot of fill but it slightly masks the resolution and micro at times.
    - However, if this makes any sense at all, despite the bit of fill in the mids, the LTS does NOT have a thick sound to me. Overall, it's still a slightly thinner sound. I know this seems directly contradictory but I don't have better words for this yet. This may also change with different amps later.
    - Transients are every so slightly rounded but the rising edges or decays sound right. This makes a lot of the busier music I like slightly smeared but on tracks with "less stuff" going on, it's fine. The bass doesn't have the slightly rounded edges though, especially the low bass. Again, the quality of the low bass on this headphone is pretty good.
    - Stage is a little bit on the wider side. Depth is probably "normal". Stage placement would be small circles or areas rather than precise dots if I were to draw on paper (not good or bad per se, sometimes a bunch of little dots can sound slightly disjointed or make it feel like your listening to flaws in the recording technique instead of the music). Not nebulous.
    - On a test track that I use to test for sibilance, it was a tiny bit more than I wanted, but not enough to bother me. For a common reference, the Utopias do worse with sibilance on this track.

    Other:
    - I didn't read any of the above impressions other than the initial Purrin impression several months ago before I wrote this so I would have a clean slate if I got a loaner.
    - Fits my big head, but borderline uncomfortable - at max size, the headband pushes into the crown of my head enough that it's annoying - at max size pulling over my ears, the foam doesn't give enough for comfort. Also, my bottom of my ear lobes poke into the inner edges of the ear pads, but they don't hang out of the bottom - don't think I'm losing seal, but not 100% sure. Ear cups are not quite soft enough to mold around my glasses fully, there is a little leakage there.
    - Not sure if great seal is intended or needed for this headphone, but I actually like how it sounds better without "great seal". To get better seal, I put these on bottom first so my ear lobs catch inside the cups and I take my glasses off. The mid bass or upper bass becomes too thumpy / hammery for me this way with most modern music. It's fine with most "older music".
    - Somehow the headphone squeezes perfectly on my temples - not enough to cause a headache, but a constant low grade annoyance for me after about 30 minutes. Surprising b/c in my hands the clamping force feels much less than my 6xx, Utopia, or Autuer - maybe it's the firm pads or the fact that the "natural position" of these headphones (the top of the cups which squeeze my temples sit much closer than the top of the cups on a Utopia or HD6xx when not on a head).
    - Really well made for a 1 man project. Better than a lot of headphones from whatever big name companies.


    @Tomislav_L - Great headphone and great job on the manufacturing for what I assume is a 1 man show. I will definitely want to revisit these later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2022
  16. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Did some listening with the Stellaris (Low Z SE output) switching between the Holo Spring 2 and Yggdrasil as the DAC.

    It sounds a lot more even handed and balanced. Mid bass hump is mostly gone, the thumpy-ness is almost all gone on the Spring 2 (probably a 80-90% reduction) while being mostly gone (maybe a 70% reduction) with the Yggdrasil. There may be a slight peak somewhere in the treble still. Very energetic sound on these headphones without being too much.

    Rest of the comments above hold true. Headphone is still resolving. With the Stellaris, the LTS is definitely able to show me a bit of "I hear the problems with the track" on relatively well recorded and produced music (not lo-fi broom closet recordings) but not quite as much as the Utopia does. Somehow microdynamics and texture didn't improve a huge amount though. Still a slight cohesion issue from the mids to the highs. "Fill" is a little less now.

    Only downside right now is that ergonomic issues aren't getting any better for me, but keep in mind I probably have a bigger head than 90% of people here, so my issues may not apply to most people.

    Anyways, conclusion is still the same - great headphone, would easily recommend this with the caveat that you may need to try 1 or 2 different amps first before you find something you like.
     
  17. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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    Big thanks to Marv and RD for sending this guy along on tour. I was super interested in the headphone so glad I got a chance to give it a go.





    Build/Looks – Fantastic. I absolutely love the way this thing looks. It’s a weird refined take on the Sony SA5000 and Sennheiser HD800. The thing exudes quality construction in the hand. Super comfortable. It’s a bit heaver than a HD650, but the weight is balanced well, and I really like the cushion. It’s just the right amount of stiffness vs softness.

    Imaging – Good. Instruments are well separated and defined. They can get a bit jumbled during complicated passages, but overall holds up fairly well.


    SS – Decent width and a bit of depth. Overall sounds natural without sounding forced or overemphasized. Tends to create a three blob soundstage.


    Bass- Strikes a fantastic balance between speed and weight. Bass has good slam and distinction between notes. Love the sound of this driver. The bass has a great punch that reminds me a lot of the old hifiman headphones. Fast and punchy with a bit of a zip. The bass rolloff is notable, but to me it wasn’t that big of a deal. Rolloff starts around 60hz or so. Overall a bit of a V-shape kinda sorta, where a bit of exaggeration in midbass balances out the treble.


    Mids – Incredibly smooth and detailed. Not flagship level, but detailed and grain free well beyond a HD6XX. The overall frequency response has a gentle slope downward through the mids, which does remove the weight and breath in vocals and stringed instruments. It lessens their slam and impact, which is overshadowed by the slightly bloated bass. There was a slight dip in the midrange, but I didn't find it to be an Achilles' heel for me, because I couldn't get away from the....


    Treble – I’m very treble sensitive and the treble peak was fairly fatiguing to me. Also, the sudden dip in the treble and downslope of the lower mids has a certain thinness and even metallic sound to me. For my listening preferences (rock, acoustic) this ended up sounding pretty odd and wonky. I think with a bit more time and guidance I could have nudged down that peak to a more tolerable level. Swapping some other pads almost inverted that peak and made it sound muffled and congested, so maybe there's a middle ground to be found in there.







    [​IMG]
     
  18. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    I haven't been having much time but i wonder why mine don't have a treble peak as that loaner seems to have, not in impressions and not in measurements. Now it's modded (further) but maybe @Tomislav_L has a theory about this? Was it Purins model?
     
  19. loadexfa

    loadexfa Friend

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    LTS V3 Loaner Impressions
    I really like these and appreciate the "neutral" tuning. In that way they remind me of my LCD-4 which was modded to also be neutral among other improvements. These are really good, they are more refined and resolving than I'd expect at this price point. I think they're most similar to Focal in terms of the house sound (at least in my collection) but all of the good parts of Focal, no metallic timbre or anything. On the energetic side of the spectrum with decent staging.

    Chain
    Roon (Qobuz/Redbook) -> Rockna Wavedream -> Stratus

    Vs OG Clears
    The LTS is very competitive with the Clears and I like the Clears a lot. In terms of frequency response, I think the LTS wins being flatter in the mids and lows. The LTS is also slightly more resolving. Timbre and tone for both are pretty evenly matched. The Clears have nicer percussion hits, more crisp and snappy. The difference is small though. I like male vocals slightly better on the LTS, they feel more even and had a bit more emotional engagement. I like female vocals equally on both.

    The Clears are a bit smoother in the highs, this is one area I had an issue with the LTS, it did eventually become painful. This was unfortunate because I like them so much otherwise.

    I know they are tweakable so my fatigue could probably be fixed and I would purchase a pair if I didn't already have something that has all of the awesomeness of the LTS and more (LCD-4).

    Vs LCD-4 (RD modded)
    If I had a stock LCD-4 (which I have heard, a comparison is forthcoming), the LTS would definitely win on the FR. The stock LCD-4 is still much more resolving, I may have a special pair because they are resolution beasts.

    My modded LCD-4 wins on everything (tone, timbre, lack of fatigue, vocals, resolution, refinement) but the comparison is unfair both due to the price and how they've been tuned to be exactly what I want. I would suggest, if you like the LTS and want to upgrade down the road, you should chat with RD. His tuning will probably appeal to you, especially with Audeze.

    Other Thoughts
    Like others have said the build quality is great though I don't necessarily care about this. I find it is often a perception thing rather than reality (all those Drop reviews complaining about the ESP/95X build quality. They friggin last, that's good quality... ).

    I find the connectors annoying, takes me a minute to "find the holes". Had the same dislike when I owned DCA headphones.

    I don't find them very comfortable but I think this is partially a head shape issue. They are comfortable enough but I was surprised to find both the Clears and LCD-4 more comfortable, especially considering the LCD-4's weight.

    Final Thoughts
    I found the LTS V3 to be a pleasant surprise and highly recommend them if you're into neutral tuning. My only real issue was some fatigue from the highs which I think can be managed when you order them and/or tuning on your own.
     
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  20. Woland

    Woland Friend

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    I wasn't a fan of the connectors at first - they're largish and uncommon - which makes finding and fixing cables harder. However, over time I'm actively using the connectors a lot more because they work well - for example having them unplugged when walking and then reconnecting when listening. There's something very satisfying about the springiness and secure click of how they connect and disconnect (when you're used to them). In contrast, the Focal ones often have teething issues when connected and so I avoid cable changes. HD6XX'S are unpleasant to unplug and so I avoid cable changes. With time, these connectors grow on you.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022

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