Topping and SMSL with ASR Punking Us on DACs?

I found the Amp "review" by Amir much funnier. He bends over so much to somehow measure up and talk a fairly generic cheap class D Amp:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tp-ra3-rackmount-amplifier-review.46085/

"Distortion is kept below threshold of audibility at around -116 dB. So noise is the only thing we need to worry about. There, when combined with distortion, nicely lands RA3 in our top 20 best amplifiers ever tested"

This is supposedly at 5W/1kHz....

"Varying the frequency we do see the class D chip amp create more distortion above 5 kHz or so:"

And the graph shown below this shows 5W/1kHz as -95dB.... So we just lost 20dB in THD?

The graph says: "Reasonable for a Class D Amplifier".



How does a "basic standard" Class D Amplifier compare (because BP has improved objective performance with more up to dae designs):



Now what does Amir say about that distinctly uninspiring performance Topping rack mount amp?

"It is remarkable to me how Topping is not only capable of producing new product one after the other, they do so while striving for state of the art in performance."

ROTFLMAO

Now how about a well designed linear Class AB Amplifier? Does it do better?



Funnily enough this too is a Topping unit and performs excellent.

The DAC review has it's moments though. "There is however good bit of jitter over Coax/Toslink: Fortunately their levels don't reach audibility."

So, if it is a product from a certain company we make excuses for poor performance and suddenly reference audibility (with -95dB sidebands regarded as "inaudible"), while for another product we deliberately move goal posts to find something to criticise.

Bending over backwards, posting conflicting measurements and all the while talking up stuff.

That is camp comedy of the kind:

"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is." Samuel Langhorne Clemens

Or more precisely: "You tell me what his 'pinions is, en I'll tell you whar da man gits his corn pone."

Thor

 

Engineers are a pain in the ass. No one else says no when told to make a google-like search engine using 2 PCs, matching tin cans and piano wire.

 

I think where some people make the mistake is to rely on subjective opinion too much.

I like Amir.
I like his knowledge and analytical style and his shifty, nuanced, dismissive jibes at certain products.
What I don't like about Amir is that he positions himself as an 'authority' on what makes good, bad or mediocre products based on his measurements and as @ThorstenLoesch points out, even that becomes subjective, biased nonsense.

In my opinion, everyone should be given the opportunity to audition and decide for themselves what makes a great-sounding product and dismiss the whole realm of subjective/objective opinionating/reporting by so-called 'audio experts'...or at least take it with a big pinch of salt.

There are other reviewers I genuinely like - Zeos Pantera, Joshua Valour, Tyll Hertsens (gone but not forgotten) to mention just three, but I take ALL of their individual reviews as a 'generalism' or 'guidance' rather than 'gospel'. That's not to sound offensive or dismissive - just being contingent and realistic with not getting carried away with inflating over-expectation.
The biggest mistake consumers make is to go and read or listen to reviews and make a purchasing decision based purely on that. Then they wonder why they're disappointed when listening to the product in question when they get it home.

I'm guilty of just such a mistake. I bought a Chord Mojo years back. Convinced myself after reading all the glowing reviews and advocates that it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread - as far as my ears were concerned.
What a mistake! If there was any product I ever bought and then eventually thought to myself 'what a big pile of steaming meh', then it was that one!

Audition audition audition, if you can.

I always suggest loaning/appraising my cables to potentially interested clients in NL.
Some eventually make a purchase, some don't, some even ask if they can keep the loaner cables and make them more asap, which is nice. lol.
It's a terrible sales methodology as I introduce a risk of a non-purchase myself when people want to just buy them.
But at least it's the honourable/practical/fair thing to do in my book.
I only want satisfied customers, not people who eventually think they made a bad investment.
All audio retailers should be offering this imo, or at least a purchase on approval-scheme of some sort.

Concur?


Looks nice. Sounds meh.

 

This is my mantra too.

Note, Chris, the following uses "you" generally, not you personally...

Audition anything you can get your hands on. Find what you like.

If you like the way a product sounds that famous reviewers don't rate high, you are right, for yourself. If there is a product that is universally hyped and you think it's meh, you are right.

Explore your taste, your likes and don't let anyone else tell you what you should like.



Once you understand your own tastes (and they are RIGHT, FOR YOU, though not necessarily for anyone else) you can start CORRECTLY reading reviews by looking hard what the reviewer likes and what they dislike.

You can start to read between the lines and get a real feel for what they think of products. Few reviewers write very direct, having reviewed myself I understand why, though to the consumer it is perhaps less of a service than it could be.

And, if after you developed your own tastes and know what you really want and like and you listen to something I designed and decide it sounds like hammered poo, that rules totally ok and kool.

To change a phrase from the late and great Robert Nesta Marley (from "Stand up for your rights"):

"You can please some people sometimes, but you can’t please all the people all the time."

Thor

 

Each to their own. I would say, on my limited experience, except that I wish it had been much more limited...

Loathsome windbag.

(Amir, that is, not you. lol.)

 

I remember that. I think I got a thread ban for stating something similar but based on my work experience with cheap eastern products. I hope people don't mind me resurrecting this old thread to chime in.

 

While it's understandable, how you feel, I think it'd be better to try and find a way in which you can meaningfully contribute instead, and try to express your disdain with asr in a more toned down manner, focus on the former.

It's a matter of finding a place where you fit in, it's wise not to shit on the place you just left - lest you might get a repeat here. Sbaf doesn't in general like random people barging in and yelling how the place down the road is shit, even if they might think so. Rezing an old thread probably won't be seen as a nice gesture here, I'd suspect... but it's a learning process, even for adults.

Imho, sbaf is the best place, but there are solid people on asr too, and you can find good info there as well. Not smart to completely ignore an information source based on one/or three bad experiences. I might not completely agree with the testing methodology at times, but it's quite a big repository in it's own right with a lot of active users.

Good luck anyway, have fun.

P.s. calling Sinad Amirnad is just so great. If I was Amir I wouldn't even be mad.

 

Hey, I learnt much from the many knowledgeable users there. -Which is the positive about the site. I value the objective side of things there in general.
My post was not intended as trashtalk but more of a realization that I remembered that moment Thorsten described.

I was helpful at ASR and I strive to be here as well.