VPI Fatboy Tonearm.

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by Wfojas, May 3, 2017.

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  1. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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  2. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    For sure, and there is effective mass matching with the cartridges' compliance, rigidity, etc. @bazelio is definitely on point. Knowledge is king.

    https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database_tools.php#EffectiveMassCalculator
     
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  3. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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    Of course effective mass is important for cart selection/matching, and yet, AND YET, we have VPI either leaving us to guess, equivocating, or just plain lying, and I'll let you judge for yourself because I honestly don't know. An example: in this chart the VPI JMW '10' series of arms are said to have an effective mass of between 10.3 and 10.9 grams:

    https://www.vinylengine.com/vpi-arm-data.shtml

    And now the AND YET: here Mat Weisfeld claims the 3d 10" arm has an effective mass of "10.6 grams"

    http://vpiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3989 (scroll down)

    even though everyone who has ever used this arm comments on how light it is relative to the JMW arms. I don't pretend to be an arm expert, but I've always assumed one important element of 'effective mass' was, you know, 'mass'. Maybe I'm wrong!

    On a slight tangent, here 'Stringreen', who is basically an Audiogon forum mouthpiece for VPI, relates how HW told him effective mass 'is an unimportant consideration' with the 3d arm, because there is essentially no resonance:

    https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vpi-3-d-tonearm (scroll down)
    This is absolute crap on a level equal to HW's insistence that antiskate is a non-entity, 'nothing to see here folks, just ignore those pesky laws of physics!'

    Saying all this, I'll repeat what I've posted earlier: I like, have owned, and still own and enjoy VPI products. I think they are well made, and being built in the US is an enjoyable bonus. I'll also say that I think you can get a fine turntable and arm from VPI (and in fact I'm thinking of buying another one myself) with the unfortunate caveat that you have to wade through acres of horseshit to get there. I'd feel a lot better about buying and owning VPI gear if they would just be straight with their customers and potential customers, instead of constantly putting out, and even worse marketing the shit out of new gear from some misplaced sense that to go six months without a new THE BEST TURNTABLE WE'VE EVER PRODUCED!! is some form of corporate weakness.
     
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  4. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Hey, they make it and they print it. They change it.

    Given cartridge mass and compliance, this of course may be an issue.

    In the tables that I've seen, tonearm effective mass is shown in gradations of a gram, and if you are on the border line (or out of the ballpark , as are most low compliance carts like Koetsu and Kisekis), that might be an issue you have to ameliorate some other way. But .3 may or may not be significant.

    I defer to @shaizada who not only knows this by heart, but has had it all,and at the same time in the house. Literally.
     
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    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  5. shaizada

    shaizada Friend

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    This subject matter is always interesting to me. My general way to go about it is that I like to use tonearm effective mass and cartridge matching as a generic guideline to start things off. Physics does matter.

    However, that said, I have heard tonearms and cartridge combinations that are mismatched on paper, yet sound glorious. I think, in the end, you have to try and go by your own ear. The challenge then becomes, training ones ear on what you like, what is right, what is wrong and what compromises and sonic strengths you like to live with.

    Analog is one of the most satisfying ways to listen to music. I can't get enough of it myself.
     
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  6. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    No truer words were ever said.
     
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    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  7. bxh

    bxh Friend

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    Another photo of the Fatboy aka Titan has been shown on the VPI Instagram account here:

    https://instagram.com/p/BUGIB5jlsuj/

    Looks quite a bit different than the other two photos, perhaps different versions?
     
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  8. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    I'm curious.... Can anyone with experience comment on what the materials cost and cost of a machine capable of printing these tonearms in quantity would be?

    The prevailing view (which I agree with) seems to be that the 3D arm is cheaper to produce vs the metal one but by how much?
     
  9. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    I particularly like the threaded counterweight, though that will probably kill the azimtuth adjustment?
     
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  10. bxh

    bxh Friend

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    Could be that the weights on either side of the pivot point are threaded as well and it could be adjusted that way.
     
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