1.     Don't be a dotard!
    Read these "rules" AND introduce
    yourself     before your first post
  2. A healthy approach to understanding measurements
    Being true to what the artists intended
  3. After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones
    (opinion / entertainment piece)
    Dismiss Notice
  4. $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+
    Dismiss Notice
IMPORTANT: New Members Read This Don't Be a Measurement Fascist Merv's Top 5 Headphones - 2023 Edition $1000 Challenge

WTF Revisited: Sennheiser HD700 Stories, Review, and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Aug 16, 2020.

Page 2 of 8
  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    upload_2020-8-19_9-16-4.png

    Again, really need to see more data and align individual's vocabulary to describe this effect, but there is a trend here to correlate what we are hearing. It's more of a "timbre" thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
    purr1n, Aug 19, 2020
    #21
  2. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    The HD660S uses similar driver right? Wonder how that measures in comparison

    I wonder if weird FR is a result of trying to tune hd700 FR to approximate HD800 FR/Soundstage , but smaller driver simply isn't capable of this so this compromise is what they came up wit

    Edit: found on another site looks like the hd660s greatly reduced both 3k valley and 6k peak on hd700 FR but otherwise fairly similar tracking. More neutral but less hd800ish

    Maybe they needed the 3k valley for this driver to hit the 6k peak "goal" to get that "hd800 super treble" + big soundstage feel?

    Hd700 is flawed.but it's big soundstage at $420 clearance price is what got me interested in hd8xx. Wouldnt have even bothered listening otherwise and would likely never have bought hd800 or hd820
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
    Ruined, Aug 19, 2020
    #22
  3. BrokeSkoolBoi

    BrokeSkoolBoi Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2018
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    VA/Miami
    A very sad headphone, I tried using it for classical and the french horns rang at what must've been the Modi Multibit and Magni 3 biggest weakness which then was magnified by the treble peak and enclosure. Whatever that noise was, it was not part of Shostakovich's 7th Symphony. I never plugged it back in there.

    Once I had the CTH I could only manage 15 minute sessions. The more you listen, the more you find wrong. Maybe the peak was added to distract from how unfinished it was.
     
    BrokeSkoolBoi, Aug 19, 2020
    #23
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Sennheiser HD700
    Impedance Curve
    YEL = Free Air
    GRN = On Head
    upload_2020-8-19_16-36-9.png

    --

    The HD700 implements a mini-HD800 cup using lesser drivers. It's possible these drivers were tweaked for the HD660S since both are around 150-ohm nominal impedance. However, like the Beyers, the lower-ohm models didn't sound as good as the higher-ohm models. Note the HD600/650 are 300-ohm and HD800 600-ohm nominal impedance. The HD660S was criticized as less detailed, less expressive, although slightly more sensitive compared to HD600/650.
     
    purr1n, Aug 19, 2020
    #24
  5. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,974
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    I'd love to see this graph on every headphone reviewed. 300 ohms rarely means 300 ohms from OEM tech specs.
     
    Elnrik, Aug 19, 2020
    #25
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    ^ That could be a little bit off because I'm using a 10-ohm resistor as the reference. Usually for higher Z headphones, I'd switch to a 330-ohm; but given how the HD700 is discontinued, I'm being lazy. Still you guys get the idea how the impedance bump at Fs plays a much bigger role compared to planars with their flat impedance. Note that being 10-ohms off here or there with this headphone won't get you any drastically different results if you want to do ZOut FR voltage-divider calculations.
     
    purr1n, Aug 19, 2020
    #26
  7. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,280
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Bird-watcher's paradise
    Aren't the 800s 300 ohms as well?
     
    Senorx12562, Aug 19, 2020
    #27
  8. Yethal

    Yethal Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Poland
    Yethal, Aug 20, 2020
    #28
  9. Boops

    Boops Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,188
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    New York
    Based on their posted before/after measurement, “fixes all that is wrong” seems a bit overstated don’t you think?
     
    Boops, Aug 20, 2020
    #29
  10. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I would say it makes it worse. It eliminates the 6khz "air" while leaving the big valley. Looks like a hd600 with a blown driver
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
    Ruined, Aug 20, 2020
    #30
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Investigation? Looks like felt. Cheap enough.
     
    purr1n, Aug 20, 2020
    #31
  12. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I dunno I don't get the point of mods like this. You get rid of the 6khz peak so maybe it's more listenable on a bright amp, but in terms of the character of the headphone itself it's pretty much destroyed as IMO that peak was the purpose of this headphone (hd800-lite). If you don't want the airy treble at all better off selling it and getting a different headphone like hd600/hd650.
     
    Ruined, Aug 20, 2020
    #32
  13. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2019
    Likes Received:
    777
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Osaka
    I tried that Mod house kit and didnt like it personally, it made everything sound sort of muffled and off somehow. Did improve the peak, but I found just cutting it with EQ sounded better to me.
     
    Raimei Templar, Aug 20, 2020
    #33
  14. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    That's pretty much what I'd expect ,.if u get rid of the peak and leave the valley it's just going to sound dull
     
    Ruined, Aug 20, 2020
    #34
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Use this tool from @Bill-P to visualize the data: http://billp.site/projects/chart-tool/ Download the files first from http://hpdb.io. Be sure to apply +90db offset or so because the datasets are normalized to 0db. Enter 90 in the offset field and press the "+Offset"

    Grab files from http://hpdb.io:

    cFPC-Sennheiser-HD700*
    cFPC-Sennheiser-HD660*

    Note: All the EARS measurements are up. I will slowly add the FPC (flat plate coupler) measurements, which are most of my historical measurements.

    upload_2020-8-20_11-46-0.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
    purr1n, Aug 20, 2020
    #35
  16. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I would love to see an HD700 S. HD700 is still the overall best "chassis" Sennheiser has in terms of fit IMO. I wonder how it would sound if the HD660S drivers were stuck in an HD700 chassis. Would it fit? Anyone wanna try? :D
     
    Ruined, Aug 21, 2020
    #36
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    purr1n, Aug 21, 2020
    #37
  18. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,309
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah. "Honey, I shrunk the earcups, but forgot to shrink the wavelengths".
     
    Hrodulf, Aug 21, 2020
    #38
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,117
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    There's always certain Beyer's giving you the finger:
    upload_2020-8-21_12-10-47.png
     
    purr1n, Aug 21, 2020
    #39
  20. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Hmm. Maybe if they stuck in a Helmholtz resonator like they did with HD800S they could make the 3khz > 6khz "slingshot" a bit less extreme. It would be a real shame if the HD700 were the last headphone to use it's "chassis." It is truly the best large headphone fit I have ever experienced by quite a margin.
     
    Ruined, Aug 21, 2020
    #40
Page 2 of 8

Share This Page