Yggdrasil LIM Impressions Only Thread

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by rhythmdevils, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    BAL and SE on LIM: very slightly different, emphasis slightly, and even if slightly different, the difference could be from the differences in sound from the (pre)amp's BAL and SE inputs. There's this last part that needs to be considered too.

    Last time I looked at the PCB, was pretty sure I saw this: after the IV from the DAC8812 (D to A) outputs, there were two parallel paths. One for BAL out and another for SE out. No summing. The guys at Schiit read our shit. Really.
     
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  2. exocer

    exocer Acquaintance

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    Anyone else try alternate vibration control feet on their Yggdrasil? So far, I have tried:
    1. Herbies Tenderfoot
    2. Orea Bronze (a kind friend lent these to me). I

    find that the Yggdrasil responds well to both of these feet. The Herbies come at a fair price and are totally worth trying IMHO.
     
  3. leafy

    leafy Facebook Friend

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    They are essential IMO. Much better imaging and bass. I bought the brass feet off Aliexpress for 2 bucks a pop, and 3 feet per machine.
     
  4. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Imaging and bass, from anti vibration feet on the DAC?
     
  5. Tchoupitoulas

    Tchoupitoulas Friend

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    Use the force, Luke

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Kolozub

    Kolozub New

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    it is weird but yeah
     
  7. leafy

    leafy Facebook Friend

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    Well, it's 6 bucks + shipping and some time right? Just try it and have fun.
     
  8. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

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    Putting aside whether feet make an audible difference or not, you know Aliexpress has a lot of counterfeit items, right?

    I use Tenderfeet - always felt the price is right with at least a transparent design philosophy behind Herbie's products - but can't speak to any SQ differences with LIM because I've been using the same four feet since back when I had a 2011 original release D/S Bifrost. I remember thinking back then that they made things "cleaner," but I would call it pretty subtle and within the realm of possible psychoacoustics, sure. Since then I just used them across Bifrost 1 upgrades (Uber, Multibit, USB boards), then put them under BF2, then A2 Yggdrasil, now LIM.
     
  9. leafy

    leafy Facebook Friend

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    I feel we are definitely getting off topic here. Aliexpress or not, generic brass isolation feet is a great way to experiment and if there is the willingness to invest further on more expensive gear, that's up to one's interest and pocket.

    I started my Schiit journey with Modi and now I have the full suite of LIM + FreyaS and a Vidar driving LS50.

    If something works as proof of concept, that's great, if not, there are so many more gizmos one can play around with, that's all I am saying.
     
  10. MellowVelo

    MellowVelo Friend

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    I've had Yggdrasil A1 for six years now. I've contemplated making the shift to LIM. Truthfully, there's very little that I find wrong with A1, other than wanting a touch more warmth. Personally, I prefer tone and timbre over resolution, and all the impressions lead me to believe that the LIM would take my system in this preferred direction.

    But I'm concerned about losing another quality of the A1: Moffat Bass. One of the most addictive traits of the A1 is the Moffat Bass. The bass on the A1 has always had this propulsive, driving quality that grabs hold of you and never lets go.

    So here's my question: how is the Moffat Bass on the LIM?
     
  11. Huhnkopf

    Huhnkopf Friend

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    Have you tried a Firmware swap to make it a GS? @Empyah could eloborate further
     
  12. MellowVelo

    MellowVelo Friend

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    I haven’t, but I’ve thought about it. Does @schiit still offer this? It’s not listed on their website.
     
  13. Empyah

    Empyah Facebook Friend

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    Just send them an email - I think I paid around 20 bucks for the chip.
    It is definitely an upgrade, higher clarity and blackground paired with better imaging/localisation.

    And one thing I am still on the fence about is, if it is more detailed than the A2 I got now, or if just the slightly brighter presentation lends itself to that perception. I believe synergy to be the main priority for choosing any of the boards.
     
  14. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

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    I suppose it depends on what you mean exactly by “bass” here, but @purr1n mentioned better bass articulation vs. A2 in his original LIM review, which I had forgotten until now, and come to think of it I remember that being something I noticed going from A2 to LIM. It didn’t bowl me over (I’d say the timbre and blackground differences were a bigger delta), but it was noticeable. I doubt you’d find the bass presentation to be a step back, at the least.

    I agree with the others that you should give the new firmware a try, though, if only because it’s more cost effective. Remember: if you’re happy with what you have, you gotta also keep in mind that all the Yggdrasil flavors are ultimately sidegrades.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
  15. MellowVelo

    MellowVelo Friend

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    I‘ll probably give the GS firmware a try, if it’s still available. I certainly understand that the various Yggdrasil options are “flavors”, not upgrades. I’m beyond the point of upgrading my system; I’m just looking to tailor the system to my taste.

    Regarding bass, I’m referring specifically to what many have called “Moffat Bass”. There are many references here on SBAF, but I actually like @purrin’s clear definition on HF:

    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread.766347/post-11601456

    I would expect all Yggdrasils to have Moffat Bass; I’m just curious how the bass quality shifts between the various flavors, specifically on LIM.
     
  16. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    This is pure conjecture on my part, but I've always understood that a significant contributor to Moffat Bass is the power supply design, specifically the multiple separate PS for the different sections within Yggdrasil of all flavors. I'm happy to be wrong, or technically deficient if there's anyone that wants to chime in with more experience than I.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  17. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Power supply always matters with all audio. Low impedance in low freq (proper beefy design not anorexic negative feedback reg garbage) matters for bass. Lack of ripple, lack of high freq noise and fast transient response matters for mids and highs.

    I have had the fortune to try out some great dacs (many $$$$$ items), MSB top dac among these which is our reference unit at my work place. There is much more to quality bass than just dynamics (transient, scale) and pitch differentiation etc, which I would attribute mostly to the analog chain capacity (psu and output buffers). Analogy being that one would get similar attribute variability from one amp to another.
    On top of all that there are soundstage features in quality bass, fine envelopes of energy in bass and the way the energy in bass has been integrated into notes and locations in space - these kinds of things I speculate come from the dac architecture and filter design.
    Beginning my audio electronics hobby I built and messed around with R-2R dacs and filters. The bass response was significantly altered by filter design. All filters are relatively flat in magnitude, esp in bass, however the impact, dynamics and 'fullness' of bass was quite different from one filter to other. It has to do with how phase and magnitude has been integrated in the time domain. I strongly suspect the 'Moffat Bass TM'' comes in big part form the filter.
    I was a multibit zealot in the beginning of my audiophile journey; now listening to the latest and greatest have only strengthened the hold of my beliefs.
     
  18. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Remember Jason spilling the beans about power transistors singing under heavy load? This is bi-directional. Vibrations do make their way through all components to some degree to the signal and modulate it.

    Pal, you are on the right track. Do not let the SINAD - 0.000001% THD crowd get you.
    Haven't tried with any Yggdrasil, however with all other high end equipment I have tested so far floor/desk/rack coupling matters. Weirdly enough it is not same for all. Some pieces benefit from decoupling (bouncy and lossy), others benefit from spikes (grip and rigid contact). Some require combination of the two. All benefit from some format of heavy inert foundation underneath.
    When people do not get that they either have some component in their chain that eats away the fine stuff or they are not paying attention.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  19. schneller

    schneller Acquaintance

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    Has anyone done a (blind) comparison of Bifrost 2/64 and Yggdrasil LIM?
     
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  20. Empyah

    Empyah Facebook Friend

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    The dislikes are here to tell you that you could have researched that question yourself instead of spamming the thread with noise, that you have not read the rules and guides for this forum nor did you introduce yourself properly in the designated thread.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022

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