Schiit Ragnarok 2

Not clipping unless you hear distortion, likely just tripping the DC offset detection.

 

Yes, sorry, agreed. it comes back on without issue until I really push the volume again.

 

Looks like Rag2 is on its way out: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-9836#post-18069594

Time to snag one for $999.

 

Fuuuuuuck, T50RP amp...

 

It’s also a little bit upgraded per Jason’s HF post - got a toroidal transformer now that improves some specs.

 

What was the power supply originally?

 

EI-core, which Mike seem to prefer for all his designs.

 

My wish for Rag 3: A Mjolnir 3 (sound wise) with speaker outs. Same power output into 8/4 ohms as it currently has would be fine by me if it could sound like Mj3. That would be an awesome device.

Yeah, yeah I know, class A heat etc, etc…but a guy can dream, right?

 

Double decker Rag chassis!! With top and sides one huge monolithic heat sink

 

Just ordered my Rag. Looking for recommendations to bi-amp with Ragnarok pusing the full range speakers and a workhorse pusing the subs. Do you folks use prosumer level electronic crossovers? I really wish the Rag had an adjustable subwoofer crossover built in.

 

I use a miniDSP Flex between my Freya S and Aegir's. I run two of the outputs to the amps and two to subwoofers. It allows me to implement crossovers, time align mains/subs, implement PEQ via Multi-Sub Optimizer or REW and I've also enabled DIRAC. If you don't intend to time-align subs and mains you could use a miniDSP 2X4 to implement crossover and EQ for subs via the Rag's pre-out.

 

Aren't we basically talking about Tyr here? Chokes n stuff

 

First impressions (with headphones) with Rag 2 is that it's smooth.

When reading other's impressions that mentioned it smooth, I've always thought that it's a bad thing. Now I have first hand experienced it, I think the complete opposite of it.
It's smooth in a way that it's always at ease, composed, organized and ... nothing jumps at you immediately at first.
Plays nice with any headphone I have around and effortlessly delivers anything I throw at it.

Will compare with Mjolnir 3 with different headphones and share findings later. I find it pretty interesting how the two sound differs across different headphones.

 

TLDR

• Rag2 is the best speaker amp and (one of?) the best headphone amp I’ve heard. (not that I've heard a lot though)
• For speaker usage (LS50) Rag2 is clearly an upgrade from my Audiolab 6000A: vocals are noticeably more transparent and overall imaging is much more focused. Clearer and more resolving.
• For headphone listening versus MJ3, Rag2 is consistently smoother, cleaner and has a more ‘boundless’ soundstage. Rag2 sounds much more composed and effortless when in complex passages. MJ3 still has better timbre and is richer, warmer and vocals jump out more.

Spoiler: Rambling

Rambling
Ever since I got the Asgard OG nearly ten years ago, I’ve always wondered how the Ragnarok sound like. The be all end all, the end game class amp that powers headphone directly with its speaker output.

I’ve climbed the Schiit ladder through Jotunheim and Mjolnir over the years, each step up granted pretty meaningful and significant upgrade in terms of sound quality, which reinforces my faith in both Schiit and SBAF reviews. I was really excited when Rag2 launched a few years ago and actually started saving back when hints of its existence emerged online. It launched and I was waiting for the rush of positive reviews to hit the forums, but that never came. I recall the unit in the initial loaner program was tampered so impressions are rather negative, later on when the few people actually purchased, the reviews are also scarce and not really too in depth. I think what happens is that the form factor limits the audience reach and interest (it really is too large for desktop headphone listening…) and for speaker listeners, there was a Thunderdome between Aegir and Vidar and I think that was it. I don’t think Rag2 reached its popularity of the Rag OG, and when searching for reviews even now in 2024 is hard to come by. So I moved on in life and didn’t think much about it.

I’ve moved places and recently settled somewhere I can more seriously consider enhancing my 2.1 setup (LS50 + KC62). That’s when I thought okay maybe I should save up again for a Ragnarok 2. Searched reviews and again it was scarce, although I still found a few new ones that were rather positive, especially as a speaker amp it competes (outperforms) Hegel H90, H95, H120:

https://twitteringmachines.com/review-schiit-audio-ragnarok-2-nexus-integrated-amplifier/
But overall there’s still so little reviews about it that again I became indecisive about whether or not to blind buy. And that’s when schiit announced the clearance price of $999.

Speaker Impressions (LS50)
On arrival, it looks magnificent all black with huge heat sinks on the side, this is my first time with Schiit’s largest form factor product and it’s such a beast. I quickly hooked it up with my LS50. As a speaker amp, it’s apparently better than the Audiolab 6000A I was using, no contest. Albeit a bit cold at start, it quickly warmed up after a few hours and the sound is super transparent, especially with vocals where it just pops. Imaging is also better where instruments are clearly defined and precisely placed in the sound scape. Soundstage I feel like it’s a tad less wide as the fuzzy Audiolab, but deeper and taller, maybe due to everything sound more focused.

Oh and it absolutely does NOT hiss, not even in high gain. Past speaker amps I’ve used all have some hiss, same with Audiolab. This is the first time I can’t hear any apparent hiss when I put my ears next to LS50’s tweeter. Super happy.

That’s about it for my impressions for Rag2 as a speaker amp. Honestly I have lesser experience with speaker amps and I didn’t do crazy volume matched AB with the Audiolab. The upgrade is obvious enough I kind of just packed the Audiolab away and started enjoying the Rag2. (My wife actually commented how $999 is a pretty fair price for the upgrade in sound quality: ‘It sounds like new speakers! That’s a lot cheaper than actually buying another one!’)

Headphone Impressions (Rag2 vs MJ3)
Over the course of few days, I’ve AB-ed Rag2 and MJ3 (Mjolnir 3) using my HD650, HD800S, Elex:

• All listening impressions are using Chord Hugo 2 and connected SE to MJ3 & Rag2, while balanced outputs are used for all headphones.
• Mjolnir 3 is set to high gain, single-ended, no feedback at all times (where I find it sounds best with the headphones listed.)
• Ragnarok 2 I tested gain 1 and gain 2 and they do sound different, which I will describe later.

To start with, I think Rag2 & MJ3 actually shared a very similar sound signature, both sound like high-end amps and the differences listed below are all relative and magnified for audiophile’s sake.

HD650 Notes

Rag2 (gain 1)

• Brighter, cleaner & sharper than MJ3
• Fastest transients for hd650
• Lacks bass extension and impact.
• Faster bass

Rag2 (gain 2)

• Bass is back, pretty close to MJ3
• Smoother than MJ3
• Softer dynamics
• Less grain
• More Open

MJ3

• Warmer & richer
• Grainier in busy passages.
• Better timbre
• Rawness in treble
• Mid-bass bump.

​

Through comparison I realized that there’s two characteristics that stands out with MJ3:

1. A certain rawness in the treble that helps MJ3 show off more air around vocals or string instruments that brings the uncanny realism.
2. Mid bass bump that’s satisfying with beat of the music.

This works really well for music with simpler instruments and vocals, but can work against when playing more complex music with various instruments in the mix or electronic music, in which case MJ3 will start to sound confused. MJ3 will still highlight the treble so that the vocals or strings would jump out, and will bump the beat up, but the soundstage would be flattened as a result and other instruments become hit or miss in the background.

The Rag2 does not have those two characteristic, which might sound a bit boring when compared at first, but when listen more and especially when the music enters sessions that are more complex, the soundstage is still rock solid and Rag2 is barely confused with any added sounds, everything is neatly placed, controlled.

HD800S Notes

Rag2 (gain 1)

• Brighter, bass lighter but quicker, more distant
• A bit lifeless

Rag2 (gain 2)

• Sub bass goes deeper
• Smoother
• Cleaner, lingers less
• Less grainy
• Grand & epic
• Has a more boundless soundstage, more sense of space especially height
• Echoes feel more freely decayed around.

MJ3

• More dynamic, more edge and bite
• More intense, jumps out more
• Shoutier
• There’s a certain boundary of soundstage
• Echoes are more boxed in

​

I found a lot of duplicated notes between HD650 and HD800S and refrained from listing them again, but basically the tendency is the same. The bullet points above is kind of the additional findings when using HD800S. Most interesting finding on HD800S is how they present the soundstage and echo. MJ3 tends to fill the soundstage with elements of sound, bursting with dynamics and everything feels intense. There’s however a certain boundary of the soundstage of which elements are illustrated within. It’s rather obvious if following the echoes in the recordings, where the echo decays and jumps within a certain boundary, almost boxed in. Rag2 presents sound in a more distant but grander way, it’s not as intense and things jumps out less. But it never seems to have the boxed in feeling or the flattening of soundstage whatever it plays, soundstage is always stable and composed. The sense of space is noticeably taller as well.

This is probably the first headphone amp I’ve heard that has so much confidence and so solid a grip on the soundstage it casts. And I think this is exactly what I’ve experienced when earlier I described it as ‘smooth’, which is an oversimplified word that can be misinterpreted as ‘lack of detail’ or ‘muddy’ which are far from what Rag2 is.

Elex Notes
(Note that I tested gain 2 then gain 1 where I find gain 1 retains the characteristics of gain 2, but better)

MJ3

• A bit more glary and less smooth
• Vocal more forward
• Bass more rumble but feels out of control, kind of like room gain
• Raw and impulsive
• Grainier
• Shoutier and more fatiguing
• Triggers metallic texture more
• In busy passages tend to sound strained
• Sense of haziness, muddiness
• More dynamic, almost Forced? (Satisfying at first but fatiguing)
• Warmer

Rag2 (gain 2)

• More controlled bass
• More coherent
• Easier to understand in complex music
• More composed
• Taller stage
• More airy, transparent, clean
• Better timbre / realism / albeit colder than neutral
• Less dynamic

Rag2 (gain 1)

• More Dynamic compared to gain 2
• Very Close to MJ3 but more open, cleaner, colder
• More neutral in tone than gain 2

​

In the end I find the Elex sound the best with Rag2 gain 1, where the dynamics matches closer to MJ3 while still maintaining the transparency, coherency and well controlled bass and taller staging. MJ3 in my opinion doesn't control Elex that well, I'm noticing under-dampened rumbles in the bass and metallic textures in the treble, along with a sense of haziness here and there.

Headphone Impressions (Rag2 vs Bryston BHA-1)
(Impressions are consistent across HD650/HD800S/Elex)

Rag 2

• More resolving & microdetails
• Better layering, separation
• Neutral tone
• Sweeter and more natural
• Deeper sub bass
• Better timbre

BHA-1

• More Macro-detail
• Colder
• Harsher
• Easily Confused

​

I didn't spent too much time comparing these since it's much easier to compare, IMO the BHA-1 is definitely 1 tier below Rag2/MJ3, less resolving and worse layering.

One thing the BHA-1 does quite well though, is how similarly it sets a solid soundstage just like Rag2, even in busy passages it holds the stage together giving a sense of composure and grandness to it's sound. The downside is that even with the stage held together, the sound elements within the sound stage gets rather sloppy and uncontrolled and everything sounds confused.

Ending Thoughts
Rag2 is close to the best headphone amp I've heard with my headphones:

• Focal Elex sounds the best with gain 1, no brainer.
• For HD800S, it's maybe a draw with MJ3 at the moment, would need more time to determine: MJ3 gives HD800S the dynamics and a bit of exaggerated bass it needs, while having magical timbre that makes vocals and strings pop out and feel real. The comparatively boxy feeling when in busy passages could also be forgiven since HD800S already has a larger soundstage to sacrifice. They synergizes well and even though I feel that Rag2 has better technicalities overall, it's more musical with MJ3.
• For HD650, I think Rag2 (gain 2) is the best thing ever. I'm really surprised how well Rag2 drives my HD650. It's transformative, becomes unrecognizable even, with zero veil, vast and open soundstage, transparent and clean, punchy and resolving, all the audiophile terms. I've been using the HD650 for a long time now and every amp I listen with, no matter how good it sounds at first, there's just a sense of… 'obsoletion' that I felt with HD650, and I always end up saying 'ok old man, now I want to listen to some real hifi stuff' and switch over to my HD800S or Focal Elex.
• Now, when hooked up with Rag2, I swear the sound becomes so hifi, you can fool me with a blind test and tell me this is a new flagship $1999 headphone model coming from a random brand in 2024. It shows no age at all. I've often heard that Focal Elex (Clear as well) has been coined to be the direct upgrade and a better HD650. I would go as far as saying that with Rag2, the HD650 out resolves Elex… and Elex become rather a downgrade for me. For the past few nights, I always find myself end up grabbing HD650 and it's crazy good with Rag2.

Rag2 performs so well, it should be the end game headphone amp for me, and it would be true … if I didn't own the MJ3.

Having these amps side by side gave me glimpses of what true end game could be like… combining the boundless, unwavering soundstage, cleanliness and grain-free, controlled composed characteristic of Rag 2, with the timbre and unreserved dynamics of Mjolnir 3… that… would be true end game.

I remember reading somewhere that Rag 2 in gain 1 is true class A? When driving Elex in gain 1, I do feel like it’s kind of perfect with the control and timbre and dynamics all checked. So maybe one day if schiit builds something even more stupid than MJ3, like a class A headphone amp in the size of a Ragnarok… but until then, I'm happy.

 

I really appreciate the Rag2 MJ3 comparison. Thanks.