Can't decide between the JDS Element III Mk.2 Boostd, or a Modius + Jotunheim 2 Stack, for HD800s.

Thank you for your comment.

The reason I find it hard to trust my own judgement is because I don't think I have very discerning ears. Maybe its the tinnitus, maybe it's my anatomy, maybe I just have a very weak HRTF. Regardless of the cause, I could not hear a lot of things people talk about, when describing different pieces of audio gear. For example, the HD800s, which are supposed to be the absolute soundstage KINGS, sounded exactly as narrow as my HD6XX's, which are supposed to be one of the WORST headphones for soundstage. Even when I was listening to very well-produced stuff, like Fleetwood Mac, or symphonic productions, on $5000 of hardware at the audio stores. All of the sound was coming squarely from the center of my brain. Nothing ever extended beyond my ear canal. This, coupled with other observations, makes me think I just can't hear the subtleties that everyone frets over here. I still bought the HD800s because of other improvements that I COULD hear, but a lot of the "wow, night-and-day" differences that people claim were invisible to me.

But then I look at reviews, or read articles, or chat with people on forums, and they all swear up and down that the acoustic differences are night-and-day obvious, and that no no no, trust me, you REALLY CAN tell the difference between a Modius and a Bifrost. Or between a Lyr and a Jot. Or between X and Y. And they use such strong language, such strong adjectives. This one is bright and smooth, this one is dark and warm, and.... I don't know, it makes me doubt my own experiences. Like, maybe with more practice, I WILL be able to hear those things? Because if that's the case, it makes sense to buy the Bifrost, and be set for life, and have a high skill ceiling to grow into one day.

But then I watch a video where a guy is switching between the Bifrost and the Modius and I can hear absolutely no difference at all, even though he's commenting on the differences right then and there as I'm listening. Same with the Lyr and tube amps. I couldn't hear any difference when I was at stores, listening to solid state amps vs tube amps like the Cayin HA-1A.

That's why I've been so resistant to people's suggestions for Vali's and Lyrs and stuff, even though the Lyr was originally the amp i was most in love with and actually wanting. I'm sure you can all hear the synergy as clear as day, but I'm not so sure that I will.

Well, that and the fact that this is for a PC audio setup where I'd be turning the system on and off 10+ times a day, so I'm either racking up power cycles on the Lyr/Vali and its tubes, or I'm just leaving them on all day long, racking up tons of hours on the tubes. Either way, Im burning through tubes in a year and a half or less. With my financial situation, I can't be constantly replacing expensive tubes, and will also never be able to afford tube rolling in the first place, so much of the benefit of tube hardware is lost on me.

 

So Basically you still live at home and get a $25 per week allowance.

 

Please take these with a grain of salt the size of a bowling ball. We don't need even more folks opining that you can so readily circumvent YouTube compression (I'm banging my head against a similar sort elsewhere just now and I'm throwing my hands up in defeat).

I just realised you said you were running the HD800s directly out of an SDAC-- how? Are you using the unbalanced out? Might have missed it earlier on.

 

No, buddy. This is still all want. No one needs any of this. At the end of the day this is all fluff. This is all for fun. The moment you lose that perspective is when this stops becoming a hobby and starts becoming a negative influence.

My advice - take the Jot 2 and enjoy it. Not everyone that stumbles into this weird dive bar gets an offer like that. If you feel you've got some value out of this thread, take it a step further and become a contributor so you can get in on some loaners (might be hard for Canada) and hear more gear in your own setup.

Enjoy the music. Life's too short to stress about this stuff.

 

Headstage is complicated. In some sense you should really not be hearing things come from way outside your ears. Headphones, amps, and DACs can do a lot for headstage, but... it's still coming from where the headphones are on your head.

It's much more about your brain's ability to perceive spatial cues in music. For me concentrating on this sometimes feels like doing geometry exercises, which may not be how you want to enjoy your music. Some people say they are bad at this - maybe they are, or maybe they're just good at enjoying music in a way that doesn't require them to worry much about it.

https://headwizememorial.wordpress.com/2018/03/20/depth-perception-in-headphones/ might be worth a read.

HD800 has impressive headstage capabilities. That's why I got mine, it's sort of that headphone's calling card. But it's not that headphone's only virtue, as you've heard for yourself.

Also, usually people saying gear differences are NIGHT AND DAY are overselling it. Aside from youtube videos being a bad place to pick up on that... the differences are sometimes very subtle, even between modest stuff and titan-of-legend stuff. It's more that sometimes the very little things make a big difference in enjoyable music reproduction for the right (or perhaps wrong) listener, if that makes sense.

But if things aren't bothering you, if you're enjoying your music just fine, then you don't need to make them bother you.

Trying to avoid tube rolling is a very reasonable thing.

That said, Lyr 3 (and probably Lyr+) doesn't seem to run tubes too hard. I would estimate I've had mine on with the same tube (Chinese new production, readily available from lots of places) in it for at least 5000 hours, and no sign it's near the end of its lifespan. That's over 2 years of fairly heavy use. Not trying to sell you on it (It's very good with HD800 and I like mine a lot, but there are other reasons Lyr3/+ may not be what you want), but not a particularly big issue for this amp.

 

If you take the tube amp route send me a pm. I'll buy you two or three tubes so you have a good number of years of fun to look forward to. Most Schiit amps only take one nowadays.

Lyr 3 was my favorite amp, closely followed by the original Vali, prior to moving to big boy tube amps.

It's not like you are going the folkvanger route. Lol.

 

I want it to be very clear that you aren't likely to burn through tubes with Vali 3 and GE JAN 5670W even if you run the Vali 3 for 10 hrs a day every day of the year. With an estimated life expectancy of 10000 to 100000 hrs the GE JAN 5670W will likely give you between 2.75 and 27.5 years per tube. GE JAN 5670W are currently priced at $20US per tube. It would take 25 12 tubes to bring Vali 3 + Tubes to the cost of a Jotunheim 2. At the low end of life expectancy it will be 30 years before you wear out 11 tubes at 10hrs / day every day of your life for 30 years.

*edited for math error, brain fog strikes again*

 

Those following this thread may wonder why I am such a big fan of the Vali 3 + GE JAN 5670W tube:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...nergy-special-sound.11676/page-22#post-427344

 

You are very kind, thank you. Funnily enough, my heart was originally set on the Lyr+. I originally fell in love with the Valhalla lines those six years ago, and that love persisted as the product line evolved into the Lyr. It's purely an aesthetic love, though. I spent weeks debating purchasing it, but eventually left it behind because of the concern over using a tube amp on a PC audio setup, and my lack of ability to hear the differences between tube amps and solid state. I figure if I can't hear a difference, and just end up running the Lyr in its solid-state mode anyway, well I might as well just save money and buy the solid-state unit, a.k.a. the Jotunheim.

Hmm, thank you for this added detail. Does this hold true for other tube amps like the Lyr+, or is it just the Vali that runs them this gently? Do you personally feel there's any improvement with the Lyr+ over the Vali?

When it comes to tube amps in general on a PC audio setup, what should you do with them? Should you turn them off any time you're stepping away from the system for an hour, thereby racking up thermal cycles, or should you only turn them off at night, thereby racking up more total hours? I understand the thermal cycles to be more damaging than pure runtime.

I tried listening to some tube amps. A hi-fi one, the Cayin HA-1A, and a small one, the Woo Audio mini tube amp dongle. I tried my very best, with the highest-production-quality tracks I could, all in .flac, running off serious DACs, but I could not hear an ounce of difference to the solid-state amps I was listening to. I would have loved to try more tube amps, but none of the stores in my city really carry them.

The Vali is so cheap though, maybe one day in the future I'll pick up a used one to give a try and comparison with whatever system I end up going with. Who knows, maybe then I'll hear a difference and come crawling back here to bitch about how I didn't listen to you from the start.

 

Let me correct that for you - "one quite like this."

 

hello,

tube nervosa is very real, however...

i purchased my LYR 2 in 2016, i purchased a matched pair of Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold Preamp Vacuum Tubes in 09/2019.

i am enjoying the LYR with those tubes, right now (BF Multibit, HD600XX, Jeff Beck "Blow by Blow.")

i have a PC music set-up, my music hardware is powered on 24/7.

ymmv.

 

hello,
found a calculator for this:
https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=09&d1=30&y1=2019&m2=04&d2=30&y2=2024
cheers!