Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. Pancakes

    Pancakes Acquaintance

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    Another gem from the review "I had to really floor my headphone amp". So I guess driving the amp into distortion/clipping was the correct way to do the measurements lol.
     
  2. Degru

    Degru Facebook Friend

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    I find it amusing that they praise amps that put out lots of clean power, but then criticize headphones that actually use that power for doing so.
     
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  3. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    Are his members accepting this without complaint?
     
  4. Pancakes

    Pancakes Acquaintance

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    Basically yes. It's SOP over there.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    What is stranger is that they use headphones with massive amounts of linear and non-linear distortion, several magnitudes higher.
     
  6. Degru

    Degru Facebook Friend

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    Amir keeps digging his hole deeper as he tries to argue.

    Amir cannot hear positional variation in headphones:
    [​IMG]
    Amir's head is too narrow for Stax (and apparently Diana):
    [​IMG]
    Well hey at least he's truthful..ish?
    [​IMG]
    This speaks for itself:
    [​IMG]
    "We are not a measurement community":
    [​IMG]

    Anyway, he said it best himself in his WM1A thread:
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Ntbm3

    Ntbm3 Friend

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    Only the most amateur engineer accepts result is result...

    The lack of engineering common sense on ASR is a bit concerning.
     
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  8. Mont789

    Mont789 Acquaintance

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    I'm more odd how the more scathing reviews by ASR are planar/electrostatic. But when it something like the HD650 suddenly being above 1% doesn't matter.

    Also, I'm wondering how many there have even tried the headphones being tested.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 7:13 AM
  9. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    "Uh, why headphone placement variations on measure rig not track my perception?"

    It's because you can't hear for shit, Amir.
     
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  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Well, it's more complex than that. There's a reason why the likes of stereophile will do 1/3 octave smoothing on speaker measurements. With music, our ears simply are not as sensitive to small peaks and dips less than 1/3 octave wide. Deep narrow dips, or dips in general tend to be hard to pick up without training.

    I do think that there is some adjustment in our brains if these dips and peaks are on the account of standing waves or super early reflections inside the cups, from the ear - that is we hear in the time domain, not frequency domain (not commonly known: the FR measurement is the result of processing of a time interval of sound). This is why in some ways, I still like the original V1 Changstar or "FAC" (free-air coupler) measurement, as it is a simulated free-air measurement (using porous foam for support). This measurement method is quite immune from changes in FR based on positioning.

    The key phrase is "profound differences" in measurements. For Amir, 2 SINAD or 0.1db are profound differences. He zooms into measurements too much. How long have I been saying that measurements need to be properly presented with visualizations according to scale that reflect maybe what we are hearing? If Sennheiser extends the Y-axis too much and applies too much smoothing to their advertising materials for the HD800, then Amir is guilty of going the other way.

    That being said, I think some of us do hear differences based on headphone placement, and do adjust our headphones a certain way because of this, maybe even unconsciously.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 8:16 AM
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    He's pandering to his audience. They can't afford more expensive gear. Makes his audience feel better.
     
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  12. Pancakes

    Pancakes Acquaintance

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    I'm not very sensitive to this in general (Elegia, HD600) but with Diana V2 I find even small adjustments to make huge differences. I think it's due to the pad shape and how it both seals against your head and ends up placing the transducer in relation to the head and ear. And not surprisingly he struggled with that. What's also not surprising is that he figured "well, I can't get an accurate measurement but I'll publish garbage and make a ruling based on it." Science indeed...
     
  13. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    That’s not entirely true. Most threads I looked at have a handful of gadflies, though their views do tend to get drowned out.
     
  14. Pancakes

    Pancakes Acquaintance

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    Well yeah I mean nothing is absolute. But generally his "verdicts" are taken as truth.
     
  15. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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    It could just be that the headphones I've tried over the years are specific about placement but the notion that there aren't massive differences in sonic presentation that are solely attributable to orientation of diaphragms to ears is genuinely odd.

    Then again grew up with personal audio cuz no speakers due to space constraints blah blah blah :p
     
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  16. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    [​IMG]

    [Whoa] Why measurements no agree with perception? [/Whoa]

    “I think serious research is needed...” As if it’s never been considered. That’s a gap.
     
  17. mk801

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    "Why don't the measurements line up with what I'm hearing? Have the measurement gods forsaken me?!"
     
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  18. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Not exactly the most headphone-hardcore of members, but learning to love my HD600s certainly involved finding out how to wear them.

    Maybe it's a head-shape thing. Maybe they just fall into place on some heads but not on others.
     
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  19. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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    I'm with you there, haha. Need to have the HD600's diaphragms firing directly into my ear holes while I push the HP-3s as far forward as I can so the back of my ears touch the inner surface of the pads— this is just how I need to have em so things don't sound messed up.

    Definitely may be a head shape (or hair) thing. I've more or less got a flat plane on either side of my head and a ridge along the top-back of my skull that I rest headbands on; pretty sure that affects things too.
     
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  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Do you have trouble with mountaineers?
     

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