Blind Test Part Trois: Schiit Magni Unity vs Topping L50

Of course, the local way is the correct way

 

There is nothing to be discussed with Amir except Amir Is Right.

If anyone suggests that he isn't, he will come back with why he is. Goalposts adjusted to suit. Ad Infinitum.

It is a shame that he's actually influencing people --- else we could all just forget about him, leaving him to his deserved fate of telling an empty echo chamber how right he is.

 

Most excellent discussion taking place with Amir on ASR right now.

 

Screenshot before he deletes stuff once his good sense kicks in.

 

I'm trying but it's going on for pages, he's mad.

 

I took a look at the thread. They’re asking for video evidence of your blind test, filmed in a way that reduces the likelihood of tampering or evidence leaks (multiple angles that show the switches, level matching numbers on instruments, each test result needs to be filmed, and so on). It’s a ton of work. I can’t blame you for not wanting to do it. But I see where they’re coming from: they have no reason to believe you, and there’s no mutual respect between ASR and SBAF that might lead to ASR’s senior members to take a leap of faith. Once that evidence is provided, there is a claim that they will meet on neutral ground for further testing. It sounds like Mr ASR would not make a personal appearance, but solderdude said he’s willing to talk after video evidence that is available. ‍::shrug::

They also claim the ABX box may inadvertently leak by way of relay noise or another audible (and presumably measurable) artifact. It’s possible, my DIY one may have leaked by way of volume pots, though I’m inclined to believe the Van Alstine one is better made then my hasty design.

There’s a bunch of name calling in the thread, but that’s it as far as substance goes.

 

Kidding aside (my comment about screenshotting was mainly to make people posting in that thread maybe reconsider actively engaging), is the whole thing here really about whether or not it's possible to blindly identify amplifiers?

Bro, nani the what. Someone mail them a G109A or the G111, I remember those measured quite well.

If this were DACs sure I'd understand some skepticism because the differences between those are much more granular, but please don't tell me the "all amps sound the same" contingent is actually gaining traction nowadays because that's silly.

Critical listening is a skill and it's a really tedious process— it's a fully different thing from just listening to music and I hate it. I had to relearn how to tell 320kbps MP3 from redbook FLAC and it took digging through my own library and convert them down to lossy (because of course online tests pick the dumbest tracks to use) to be able to do it comfortably; it's not until you sit with a system and feel a nagging itch that something is "off" that things _may_ warrant addressing (e.g. me getting sick of Velvet Sound a year ago but trying not to spend money lmao)— I don't know where I was planning to go with this paragraph but I'm leaving it here anyway. Something about how people might be conflating passive hearing with critical listening, idk.

ASR truly is "gear before music" epitomised.

 

This really ties in with what has ALWAYS bugged me about the ASR thesis. If they are SO adamant nobody can tell the difference in the sound of non-faulty high-ish SINAD amps, then what the f**k is the whole point of what they do? Why does Topping, SMSL, etc. keep releasing new products if they all sound exactly the same?

As a piece of 'science', it is a miserable illogical failure.

 

I can’t believe I’m here summarizing arguments from ASR, but that point came up in that thread. Topping puts out new shit because their market likes new products and likes buying them. It’s a business decision, not an audible difference decision. ASR just measures and ‘reviews’ them, but does not actually believe they sound different.

 

Right, and that ties in with their thesis that they are saving customers from predatory audiophoolery companies..... how, exactly?

Same shit, different shovel. Only with more hypocrisy.

 

There’s something I never fully understood about measurements. Disclosure: I don’t know much about signal processing. Measurements of SINAD or whatever run against test tones, right? It seems to me that ABX testing of test tones is likely to produce no meaningful results. But in a real recording, sounds change quickly, have overtones, and so on. How are things with a time component measured? Can they be? What if a component (amp or DAC) does not alter its output voltage quickly enough to match the source recording? Is that possible or measurable? What measurement helps determine if there’s weirdness in the output over time?

 

If you ever get bored of audio playback please do mics next. That's a crowd that really likes FR graphs and doesn't feel that much else can be made out of current technology.

I'm actually curious how microphone distortion/transient response/response to hitting xmax is measured. I'm still very ignorant with respect to how audio gear works but it's somewhat easy to intuit how DAC and amplifier have interplay with playback transducers, but somehow the path backwards seems a bit less intuitive.

I remember the DAC offs you used to post, but hey you didn't film the entire process so of course you're lying! /S

People determined to claim that no differences exist between similar gear are irksome. I'm far from being a skilled ear but DACs and filters make for an annoying enough difference that end up nagging me to make changes over time: I liked how hybrid filter on the FiiO BTR7 made for a more intimate headstage with the Andro 2020s and lowered upper treble levels slightly, but the extended ringing eventually got on my nerves that I went back to the linear phase filter after a couple weeks and never looked back; I'd still struggle with a rapid A/B test but again, some differences just aren't immediately evident— it feels like a lot of people who are convinced that there should be no difference simply sit and expect that sounds vaguely fall in line with what they purport to sound like and eschew sinking into the music.

Bah. The whole point is to nitpick just until you end up with something you find hard to fault (that's within your means) so that you can just forget all this dumbness and enjoy music/anime/films/games.

 

I hope you do the ABX and video it. By ASR's rules. So as to shut them the f**k up.

 

Absolutely. In addition to that, I'm also very convinced that the FFT of a square wave that might represent a real component of music in no way represents what we actually perceive from those sharp transients. For example, I'd expect overshoot on a square wave is likely to run high into 'inaudible' ultrasonic frequencies on an FFT, but I am quite certain that we still perceive that initial WHUMP very differently from a slower or smoother wave.

 

Does a transient response measurement then reflect the circuit’s voltage slew?