Coffee: we drink it or we get angry.

Discussion in 'Food and Drink' started by Jeb, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Edit: unlike removed.

    You've been rather "angry" here lately, so without any other visual cues I could only take it at face value. The guy was a world barista champion, and his recent videos seem to be targeted at professionals in the coffee industry. It's way many levels beyond where I'll ever go with coffee, much like how a lot of what I read here is post graduate level audio while I'm still in highschool.

    He mentioned this Espresso Compass in one video which will take me a while to digest.
    https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-espresso-compass/

    Last week I dug a little deeper into preinfusion, which I thought could be accomplished with any machine by turning the pump on/off briefly before continuing the pull. Turns out the pressure needs to be ramped up gently so the puck is wetted gradually. It also turns out the design of my OG Silvia allows the steam valve to be used to reduce the initial pressure hitting the group head.
    http://www.studiobronts.com/2013/03/31/preinfusion-with-unmodified-rancilio-silvia/

    I played around with it over the weekend and found spurting was reduced and the shots to taste a bit smoother. More investigation is warranted.
     
  2. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    When I was roasting, the Behmors were more primitive. I remember people would open the door on it to extend time from 1st to 2nd crack. At the time, drum roasters available were either primitive or expensive, and maybe both.

    Here is a writeup on a version of an early roaster, using a commercial PID.
    https://randytsuchroasterpid.blogspot.com/2009/12/roaster-pid-ii.html

    I think my roasts were better with an air roaster. I could make a more precise roasting profile with air. Analogy is air is sports car and drum is luxury car. Could make temperature adjustments faster with air, drum it takes longer. But drum could make a bigger batch, so convenience won out.

    I even had plans to make a stir crazy turbo oven roaster which has a higher capacity, and is supposed to do a good job.
    But I stopped instead lol


    Different subject, that Niche Grinder looks nice, great price for a conical. But there is risk since its a new product from a new company.
     
  3. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    To the coffee gurus here: how can I get the best tasting black coffee with the least amount of effort? What method, equipment, beans (or ground), etc?

    I like a medium and light roasts. Nothing too dark.

    I'm sure anything is better than my Nescafe instant coffee, but if I can get a better tasting cup without much more effort. I know I'm incredibly lazy, but I do drink coffee all the time. I don't mind getting a cheapo Mr. Coffee drip brew and whatever ground good brands at the supermarket (I'm guessing Eight O'Clock Coffee) if that yields the best result for minimum effort.

    I'm open to anything under $500. I figure you guys might have better suggestions than some of these product review sites like Wirecutter.

    Thanks.
     
  4. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    That's totally awesome. I'm definitely gonna try this on my Silvia.

    Aeropress, cold brew, or pour over. Get a manual burr grinder and a cordless drill. Spend more time trying different techniques, and less time looking at coffee machines. Just some suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  5. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    You're probably going to get a wide variety of responses, but I scanned this quickly and it seems pretty reasonable for no fuss mindless decent coffee.
    https://lifehacker.com/good-coffee-for-lazy-people-1773462342
     
  6. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    A gentleman has a cordless drill in his kitchen just because.
    Bad idea to use it while woman is watching, for some reason they dislike this.

    I was going to recommend to check out what Marvey is doing. But then, he has decades of experience and you are .., uhh drinking Nescafe.
    • I like what comes out of Aeropress, but there is merit to simple pot coffee from simple french press, when dialed in right.
    • For grinder check out some good cheap conical burr grinders from Baratza (Virutoso was mentioned here already), Wilfa, Lelit or similar. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean shit in this context, only limited. Cheap conical grinders won't give you the fine grain selection and usually the range of grain is limited more. Some of these are supposedly better at raw end and other at fine end. Bigger burrs are always better. Size matters. For pot or Aeropress the cheaper ones should do fine.
    • Finally, get a kettle with temp options and/or a thermometer to dial in the right temperature (90..97 deg C).
    • Buy beans from wholesale sites or with -50% discount
    This is around 200 $.
     
  7. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Requirements:
    1. The suggestion shall produce great tasting black coffee.
    2. The suggestion shall demand least amount of effort.
    3. The coffee shall not be too dark.
    4. Total equipment price shall be less than $500.
    5. Suggestion shall be better than Nescafe instant coffee.
    6. Brand name shall not matter.
    7. The suggestion shall yield hot coffee (derived from being open to drip and using instant coffee).
    Suggestion:

    Drip machine is probably the method that requires the least amount of effort in producing great tasting black coffee. French press and pour over are great, but the fact that one needs to heat the water first to some optimal temp makes the methods less lazy than a good classic drip IMO.

    I like BUNN, since they seem durable and is a brand that has been around for a while. They are better known for their fast commercial drips. But they do have a variety of coffee makers. If I was in the market for something < $500 I would probably give this a try:

    https://www.amazon.com/BUNN-HB-Programmable-Coffee-Stainless/dp/B01N05O5GW

    It is not a fast coffee maker, and more of an optimal one. This will set you off $129.

    Next consider the grinder. The Cappresso 560 grinder is awesome for $70 (Baratza basic offerings are also well regarded). I bought the Caprresso after reading this thread and after a few uses I see it's not bullshit (THANKS GUYS!).

    Once you got this this is what you do:
    1. Buy a small bag of medium roasted of coffee beans 100% Arabica. Here are some good ones: Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, Costa Rican Tarrazu, Kenyan AA, or Kona.
    2. Grind the beans you are going to use in the Cappresso, probably the finest of the medium grind settings , depending on how many cups you want to make (should take a few seconds). The grinder should do this on demand pretty straightforwardly.
    3. Get the BUNN coffee maker going. If possible use distilled water but if not too particular, tap water works.
    4. Drink the brewed coffee.
    This should meet your budget with good brand coffee makers, using minimum effort method for decent black coffee.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  8. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    That Capresso grinder sounds good for the price, Baratza makes nice grinders but they are more money.

    If I was going for easiest way to good coffee, I'd probably get this
    https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/technivorm-moccamaster-kbt741-black-or-polished-silver

    Key to good drip coffee is water temp, most drip makers don't deliver water that is hot enough. Technivorm has a good rep because they pay attention to details like that.

    For beans, make sure they are freshly roasted. I buy beans that I know the roasted on date, if it just has an expiration date then they might already be stale. Either find a local roaster, local coffee shop that sells fresh beans or internet from a good roaster.
    Beans should ideally be used within a month on the roast date for drip. Keep in airtight container and grind just before you make coffee.
     
  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Indeed, that's what they say. Not big on "certifications", but the Technivorms are SCA certified for water temp and brewing time, and are well liked. And so is that particular BUNN model I recommended. Here is a brief list:

    https://sca.coffee/certified-home-brewer

    Both should be OK for under $500 total cost, including a basic and straight forward grinder.

    EDIT: Actually @randytsuch recommend is probably a better one given the $500 budget. The BUNN comes with a 3 year guarantee, but the Technivorms seems to come with a 5 year guarantee, and look more solidly build. That Technivorms + Baratza Encore might be right around the $500 requirement. I believe the Baratza entry level has a little more grind options than the Cappresso I got.

    The recommendation I made is probably more around a $200 requirement. There is also this: https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-One-Touch-Featuring-Thermal-BV1900TS/dp/B00O9FO1HK for a $160 budget as well (with the Cappresso grinder and considering the current sale discount).
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  10. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    Already some good recs here. My rec for a good drip brewer is the Behmor Brazen. I used the non"connected" version back in the US and it was pretty darn close to automated pourover. The connected version connects to your phone for using profiles for certain coffees.

    The Bonavita brewers are great too. They do the job well and are dead simple. Coffee is good out of them.

    The Capresso 560 Infinity grinders are not bad. I used one for years and bought my dad one as well. I had no durability problems. I've also used various Baratza grinders. They are also a good choice and they also have one in the 100 dollar range. Very, very good customer service.

    Lastly, if you want one the easiest possible cups of coffee that is still very good these actually work really well. https://www.amazon.com/Breville-BDC...keywords=Grind+and+brew&qid=1572223467&sr=8-7
    I'm generally opposed to all-in-one combo type products but it works if you follow the setup and dial it in per the manual. You can program a lot of the details in the brewing and grinding and the grinder in it is respectable.

    All of the above opinions come from extensive use/ownership. Didn't own the Breville but I basically used one once a week and maintained and calibrated it for a friend over a couple of years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  11. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Does distilled water vs drinkable (good quality tap water) make a real difference for you?
    Perhaps water in here is better than average, too.

    I have found, yeah, perhaps I could tell it in blind test, perhaps not.
    In an audio analogy a difference between two different good signal cables.
     
  12. winders

    winders boomer

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    Distilled water is terrible for coffee or espresso....distilled water hurst the flavor and is hard on equipment.
     
  13. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    I have an undersink reverse osmosis filter (this) and it makes a noticeable improvement in flavor of drinking water, tea, and coffee. The difference it makes for my local tap water is that it removes the taste and odor of chlorine, and metallic taste coming from pipes.
    Distilled water doesn't taste good (too pure) and isn't the best for coffee, but how is it hard on equipment? Because it is neutral pH and doesn't leave mineral deposits, I wouldn't think it would harm equipment.
     
  14. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    The only problem I've heard of with distilled water is that I've heard some machines use very small current to detect water level and that distilled water is not conductive enough to allow that to happen properly.

    SCAA does recommend a certain amount of mineral content as distilled water doesn't have the most pleasant flavor.
     
  15. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    I didn't have my morning coffee when I asked about distilled vs tap water.
    I have not made coffee with real distilled water, only with filtered with Brita filter, which is filled with absorber minerals, takes away like half of the magnesium and calcium hydroxides and other dirt.

    Real distilled water is dangerous to drink and also tastes weird.
     
  16. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    It would be more of a maintenance deal. California seems to have hard water, and one might need to descale the machine more often if using tap water than distilled water. That said, I'm too lazy. I use tap water.

    Also I would prefer tap water in general in the US because, if I remember correctly, it contains fluoride which is good for teeth.

    I have made coffee and tea with real distilled water several times. Just for kicks. It's fine. To my unrefined palate it makes no difference (relative to all other much more significant factors - indeed think cables on your audio system).

    Distilled water used in coffee is no longer distilled water once it becomes coffee. It now has mineral content, and then some.

    Drinking distilled water straight up though is indeed not very good. Among other things, one may end up with diarrhea. My mom (a chemist) severely warned me about it when I was a kid. She used distilled water mainly for ironing.

    My understanding is that, unlike water with some mineral content, distilled water has no flavor or odor. Minerals in water may add flavor and/or odor (which may be more pleasant than not having any at all).

    Again, it makes no significant difference to me. It just means I have to trade buying and using distilled water or descaling the machine more often (specially in hard-water states in the US). I rather descale more often, but that's just me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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  18. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Thanks all for the stellar recommendations!

    And the other one you linked is half off:

    https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-One-Touch-Featuring-Thermal-BV1900TS/dp/B00O9FO1HK

    ^ I bought that in 2017 but the plastic water reservoir cracked and I threw it out. But it's been since redesigned so maybe they fixed that.

    BTW Ethiopian coffee FTW!
     
  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Yes. More $ proly gets you a more solid machine (sometimes). But if they took care of the problem, it sounds like a really good deal. I might get that in the future myslef. I just got the Mr. Coffee ECMP50, and I usually space my purchases a bit though. I do crave the drip over espresso sometimes. And the other way around. So it will likely happen.

    And yes, Ethiopian coffee is pretty nice. I know you can get much better results if you get your coffee fresh and roast it yourself. But for lazy people like me, I get the roasted beans from Trader Joe's and grind myself. Buying ground coffee looses too much flavor/aroma in a short time after opening the bag (goes stale fast), and grinding is almost brain dead easy. Passes the lazy threshold. So I do that.

    Espresso machine is not that of a lazy method. But I'm weird like that I guess.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  20. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Just looked at this video:



    A burr grinder will give you a more consistent grind than a blade grinder. But one would have to try hard to blade grind coffee as shitty as Gail did in that video. I like Gail and all. I like that she brings kool info (right or wrong) into light in her videos. But that grind example was total bullshit (nobody is perfect).

    Anyhow, I did buy the Bonavita 5-cup (on it's way). Still waiting on my $5 non-pressurized basket. Practicing my latte art skills (getting better), and not so mad about the coffegeeks forum. This is a non-bullshit review by them:

    http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/0/mrcoffeeespresso/Tonu/6038

    Very informative. Again, nothing is ever perfect.

    It's hard to find portafilters for the ECMP50 recently. I wanted to buy one to hack it for nakedness along with the non-pressurized basket. Possible this coffee machine will be discontinued, which is sad because it is probably the best coffee machine Mr. Coffee currently sells. It hits the price/performance spot for me on espresso machines (I consider this machine the king value espresso maker). From experience I can say it is not shit (unlike the ECM160 and most if not all 3.5 or so bar "espresso" machines which are total shit).
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019

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