Coffee: we drink it or we get angry.

Suum cuique

@purr1n if you like your coffee that way everything is fine an dandy. Today’s tendency to make a science of everything is questionable in my mind but it helps sell lots of (high priced) gadgets.
Main thing is whatever you spend on gadgets or however plain and simple you keep things as long as its good fun and you can still pay your rent and keep the fridge full all is fine.

 

La Miscela
La Macinazione
La Macchina
La Mano

(the beans)
(the grind)
(the machine)
(the man)

 

@yotacowboy I love that episode of Good Eats. There was another one about brewed coffee, right?

@purr1n America's Test Kitchen did a comparo (burr vs blade) and they basically concluded that burrs give you hands-off consistency, but doing sth like your method (grind, pause, shake) can produce comparable coffee. It's just more hands-on time, is all.

 

The main problem with blade grinders is consistent grind size. When it spins, it is indiscriminately making everything in the chamber more fine. Larger grounds become smaller but grounds that are already fine become even more fine. No matter how much you shake, the best you can achieve is a blend of different grind sizes that average around your target. A consistent grind is necessary to get consistent extraction from brewing.

Burr grinders not only create a more consistent grind, but they are also more ergonomic. With a blade grinder, you have to preload the desired amount of beans, keep shaking it while grinding, and turn it upside down to unload. With a burr grinder, you can keep a supply of beans loaded in the hopper, and each time simply run it long enough to get the desired amount of grounds, and they come out into a convenient separate container at bottom.

 

^This. My understanding and personal experience is that it's for consistency and control of the grind of the beans (which determines the characteristics of the brewed coffee), both for the coffee you're grinding for a particular coffee making session (whatever the brewing method), and for repeatable results from one session to the next. The only way I can see a blade grinder providing consistent grind size is if you were to grind it as fine as is physically possible so that all you have is "fines". And even then I'm not sure that you'll get a reasonably uniform particle size. A good burr grinder gives you a better chance at achieving a uniformity at your target grind size. And of being able to repeat it from one day to the next. This may be more critical for making espresso, but I'm sure a uniform grind at the desired size will improve the results using any brew method (drip, pour over, siphon, French press, etc.). Whether you can taste the difference (or care) is another matter.

Ergonomics (grind retention, ease of cleaning, timers, etc.) also factor in to the fanciness.

It may seem like I was rooting for the other team in the "tool vs. what you do with it" debate, but in this case there's only so much you can do with a hammer.

I've read some good articles on the subject but can't find them cuz who knows how many pages deep they are in the hierarchy of what Google wants us to know. But here are a couple, not than any of don't know how to find shit on the Internet.
https://www.baratza.com/fines-an-open-ended-discussion/
https://beanfruit.com/blogs/news/116265092-a-good-coffee-grinder-blade-grinders-vs-burr-grinders

 

Alton is my hero. IIRC I learned my moka pot technique from him from an earlier episode. Haven't seen this one. Thanks!

I always taste each shot for QC before polluting it with milk (never sugar).

 

@purr1n If you are happy with what you’ve got then probably best not to go chasing that final 15% or so improvement. buuuut Ive had many different grinders and coffee brewing gadgets. At one point had an Expobar E61 machine and Mazzer Super Jolly (commercial coffee standard for many years) and now I’ve gone back to simple Hario pourover. They've all been satisfying in different ways and a good grinder is a def factor in there. If you do want to make a 10% improvement In your current setup then get a Baratza Virtuoso and call it a day. save some money here https://www.baratza.com/product-category/refurb/

 

I've thought in all your latte pics that the foam is looking a tad too stiff. A little goes a long way in the air injection phase right at the beginning. Try moving to the swirling phase a tad sooner. A slightly finer foam helps the milk spider out swirl around. Based on your early experiments though I have no doubt that you'll be going from rorschach to Rosetta soon enough.

 

Stuff I have used myself:

• The Braun blade grinder will produce large distribution of grain sizes. Even with years of 'kung fu', the mechanism of operation will have big impact in the outcome. It is difficult to get very fine grain, as good quality oily/waxy bean grinds will stick to walls of the grinder cup.
• Good blade grinder in experienced hands produce way better results than crappy flat disc burr grinder (in a typical automatic machine). These flat disc stuff probably simply fry the grains.
• Good conical burr grinder will make narrow bandwidth of grain sizes on chosen setting, this means that fine tuning exact properties for espresso/ristretto becomes possible. The taste can also be less rich in a sense of variety with some beans, as probably the narrow distribution simply leaves out stuff, both good and bad. Think excellent solid state amp here. Whereas, say a typical blade grinder result is warmpoo tube amp that still manages some plankton.

+1
Big burrs (low heat), slow speed (low heat, not as tight distribution), powerful motor, enough grind steps to suit most needs except for the most OCD ristretto stuff.

 

Thanks for the refurb link. I didn't know that existed.

For V60 pour overs is the Virtuoso reeeeallly worth it over the Encore?

As an aside, I played witht he Rao V60 method you posted a while back and never could quite master it. There were sour notes that I never was able to eliminate.

I know tweaking grind size impacts brewing time, which can eliminate over/underextraction, but I'm not sure my grinder is up to the task of making those fine adjustments.

Whatever the case, going back to my old technique solved the issue instantly so that's where I'm at for now.

 

I've not used an encore but from my looking around at what people have said about the two there seemed to be some good argument that the Virtuoso has a more consistent coarse grind than the encore and a more stabilized burr set.

Pour over is, IMO, more sensitive to consistent grind than espresso due to the longer time in contact with the water and therefore greater sensitivity to overextraction from too many fines. Espresso has a happy harmony with fines in that it is dependent on them (within limits) in order to build pressure in the filter and is less sensitive to overextraction due to brief brew time.

I bought a refurb vario from Baratza and they even let me request the stainless burr mod. The great thing about Baratza is their unique customer service model. If you have an issue they will diagnose over the net and if you want they will send you the parts and you can switch them out yourself. The parts are all made to be easily user replaceable. My Vario eventually had a motor issue because of a flaw that they fixed in later models. They sent me the upgraded motor even though I was out of warranty. I have the Virtuoso here in China. Didn't want to spring for another Vario. My Vario is in storage in the US.

 

I believe it, though if the differences lie mainly in the coarse grind side of things, I'm not too bothered by it. My current grinder struggles there too which is why I gave up on french press very quickly.

 

I meant coarse as in drip coarse but yeah, with many grinders the coarser they get the less consistent the grounds.

 

@Skyline as I was brewing on my Hario this morning I had a minute to think about your sourness. Usually points to a temp issue so I was thinking that this method probably inherently loses more temp due to the stir and the spin. I bet an extra couple degrees to the water would cure it.

 

That's interesting.

I don't fret much over water temp...just off boil from a Hario kettle has never steered me wrong.

I did switch to a plastic version of the V60 on the recommendation of that video, though I'm not entirely convinced it retains heat better.

The only other time I've experienced sourness was when I first started trying pour overs and adding the stir at the end of the pour fixed it. So, I was a little surprised when it came back.

 

This is the method I've always used by the way. It makes me laugh that they want a dome shape at the end while Rao specifically points this out as wrong.

Either way, it's giving me good results: