Computer Audio Players

Thanks again Indy for the breakdown on gstreamer based apps. Looking forward to trying those out along with the tweak to the gstreamer output properties!

 

Well, me neither, although I have to admit that I have been caught out by that one --- but I've been caught out by Windows volume controls, too, so I would say they score equal on this one: insignificant tinkering, but stuff that one does have to know about.

Quite: it is like extension cables, they probably do no harm, but most of us prefer to use just one that is the right length.

That I choose to install additional stuff from the KXStudio repositories (I don't use the entire distribution) could, I suppose, be called tinkering.

There are heaps of players in Linux. Once upon a not-log-ago, I found myself severely limited to a few that did true gapless playback. That was an issue. Now, one just picks the preferred one, and if it doesn't do what is wanted, move on to the next. Just like any other OS, except all the Linux players I have used are free.

The ALSA configuration file is incomprehensible. Hats off to you if you understand it! KXStudio modifies to work properly with JACK, which I sometimes use. Learning to do that for myself would definately rate as tinkering!

I'm curious about the use of the word. I'm assuming that it is is meant to mean simply 16/44.1, but does the actual word Redbook have any meaning once the file format and data structure of an actual CD has been left behind?

And anyway... "High Res" is bollocks.

I guess they do, but, to be fair, I have to admit to having had sound work not so well without additional stuff, ie, in my case, KXStudio. I'm not talking audiophile here, but bad stuff like noise from graphics update afecting the sound --- eg, hearing the mouse move across the screen.

But, equally, being fair (And I'm not, usually, about Microsoft: I detest them) --- who amongst you Windows users plays audio on straight-out-of-the-box Windows? The internet has had how to tweak windows for audio stuff for many years. In earlier days, a lot of it was needed too. In these days of "computer audiophiles" there is a heap of bullshit to dig through. So far, relatively less for Linux: most audiophools probably think computer is spelt w.i.n.d.o.w.s

 

I don't do any special tweaks for Windows, w/respect to audio. I use a player that supports wasapi, and that's about it.

Full disclosure, I don't really buy all this stuff about different players sounding different. And if there is only a single audio stream playing I'm not even sure that the Windows Mixer causes audible changes. I use wasapi more as a "just in case". I think most of this conversation falls into the golden cables category, but that's just mho.

 

I think you are getting too caught up in my terminology or other people's terminology. I called it tinkering because it is stuff you have to do to get it to work right. In addition, with ALSA the default settings for USB devices typically prevents plug and play for bit perfect operation, and you are not born with this knowledge. It took me a while to rule out the player, attempt to rule out pulseaudio, and then bypass puslsaudio to go ALSA direct just to find out hey there is a program alsamixer that is only available in the CLI that needs to be adjusted. Yes, it is a simple change when you find it and know about it, but it wasted like a day of my time trying to figure that one out several years ago. I call it tinkering and you do not. Just go with the flow... Surprisingly, this issue still persists today in many Linux distributions because ALSA typically uses a default which prevents bit perfect audio by setting the sound level for USB devices. In addition, the Redbook reference wasn't mine, I was just using the term that Mike Moffat, Schiit, was using. Although, I agree that Redbook probably has no meaning outside of CD audio, but most people know what that means. In short, we humans are imprecise at best so don't beat us up over word choices or get into semantical arguments. It really doesn't do anything to improve our ability to attain the goal of enjoying music. I like to be precise as well so I feel your pain on that, but I am older now and am willing to go with the flow...

This comes from being a software engineer for decades, and I have used Jack extensively in the past. Although it is really just a music stream routing system, it allows various pieces of audio software plugged into it to create all kinds of cool music stream modifications. These days my requirements are a lot less, so I just use a music player that goes directly to ALSA. If I want to edit my music, I just use a simple program Audacity. If you are looking for something with the maximum of nerd knobs then try Ardour. It is a professional audio package for Linux used by some studios.

Agreed. I see no benefit to it either.

Actually this is not a Linux issue. That would happen on Windows too because this is a hardware issue. This sounds like an EMI problem with the computer which is quite common. Computers are notoriously noisy and typically do not use shielding on internal audio cables and etc. This is why a lot of pro audio gear is not inside the computer but external.

 

What I have a problem with: ALSA configuring a new audio device at zero volume, ie no output at all. Yes, that wasted hours of my life too.

There are days when I like tinkering (going easy on the definition ) and days when I scream stuff that like Why the hell won't it just work! I started my computer life with Unix, as a sideways career move and made a subsequent career out of it. I enjoyed tinkering with it, although these days I appreciate plug and play more. Didn't think much of DOS and WIndows when they came my way, and never have done since. Caused most of the problems in my systems-management life, and the prejudice (which I always admit) runs deep.

A pleasant niche job looking after some servers became a management job with a group of people supporting windows software. Good for my career, but not for my life. hey ho... it all led to today

Yep. I knew the source. Just wondered if my bit of pedantry there was actually correct or not

Me too.

Me too

I used to use Cool Edit Pro, but hated the monstrosity it became when Adobe got hold of it. Audacity is probably the nearest thing.

Oh, no... I'm not that nerdy! But nerdy enough to sometimes play with the studio tools and stuff. I met JACK because I had a firewire interface, and had to use it if I was really going to boot out Windows and use Linux. Now I use it if I do want to EQ for my aged hearing on a bad day. It is neat, and I do like KXStudio's tools for configuring/controlling it. But, these days, I do not install all the studio creative stuff from that distro: Just the basic configuration, JACK and its tools, and a few selected packages.

As an aside, I used to think that people buying DACs were only getting half the deal, because... how would they record? But I gave up all pretence to actually learning or playing music, and haven't even digitised an LP for a few years.

 

Firewire and Ubuntu... that was tinkering. Oh, ye gods!

I wonder if Ubuntu has done anything better for firewire audio now? I doubt it, as it seems to be fading away anyway. Well... I still have the box...

 

Originally, FireWire was an Apple development if I remember correctly, and they have moved on to Thunderbolt... Really USB is much more popular, so I wouldn't be surprised if support and development is lacking a bit. Nonetheless, one of the great things about Linux is everything that is old is new again. For instance, my eye-one Display 2 which is no longer supported on any modern Windows system (7 or 10) works perfectly fine to color calibrate my screens and monitors under any Linux system GUI that I have used thus far. My recommendation especially to insure future compatibility with your equipment and/or Audio Players is to shy away from manufacturers that have a tendency to want to lock you into their ecosystem. Apple and Sony are the first ones that come to mind that develop products that might only work with their products which prevents interoperability. I know Apple is very popular, and if you like their ecosystem that is all well and good. Nonetheless, if you want to work with multiple systems especially Linux, I would use USB if possible for interfacing with external devices. There are arguments to be made that Firewire (IEEE 1394) was better than USB, and that might very well be true. It is just like the VHS vs Betamax argument, and sometimes the best technology doesn't always win in the marketplace. Go figure.

 

Yep. I've been figuring --- and using USB, now, for a while. In fact, firewire was the interface of choice for a lot of pro/semi-pro gear, and did have a good life outside of Apple's garden. I don't know the state of that market now: I'm guessing it has gone USB too.

My PC audio life took off with an RME card. I've had a recent temptation to "go back in the case" with an ESI Juli@ and see how it feels.

After a major flood here, though, there is no cash for audio toys --- not even low-cost ones.

 

Questions for any Deadbeef users. Running Mate 14.04.3 and Deadbeef -0.6.2. My Deadbeef is set up as per post #3 http://www.head-fi.org/t/561961/bit-perfect-audio-from-linux#post_7596268 . When selecting the output device in Deadbeef, I get 12 different options to select from under Schiit USB Audio Device - from 'Default', 'IEC958 S/PDIF', sampling, and various speaker surround sound options. Below is the option I have selected. I'm assuming this is 'bit perfect'? Also, I'm a bit confused as to what my alsamixer volume settings should be set to.

 

Direct hardware without any conversions.

That's what I use, for any DAC that I connect. I don't have any big thing about bit perfection, but still, leave my audio alone is how I read this setting, and that seems to me like a good idea!


I would ignore the ALSA mixer settings for any device you are not using anyway. If you really never, never, ever plug anything into you PC's own audio outputs, analogue or digital, you could [maybe] turn off the Realtec chip in your BIOS settings. I wouldn't expect any improvement in the sound from the devices you are using, but fewer choices in those device lists might be tidier. Probably irrelevant if you always use the same output/DAC and never revisit that screen once stuff works.

I'm puzzled that your Schiit USB ALSA mixer is at "0" --- does it work? Can you hear it?

 

Yes, it works. It appears to be a fixed output? Allowing ALSA mixer and changing the output device in Deadbeef didn't change the fixed '0'.

 

Is it possible to measure DR on foobar2000?

 

Yes. Here's the plugin for it. Be noted that there are many ways to measure DR and the results may be off by quite a margin between different measurement methods.

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/de/free-downloads

 

I just tried this but when I try to use it a text just pops up about it being outdated from 2011. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

 

Oh crap. I'm sorry. That version was programmed to expire itself in 2011. There's a new version somewhere. Give me a few minutes to find it.

EDIT: Found it https://www.dropbox.com/s/wki2m3yotlvmoim/foo_dynamic_range_1.1.1.zip

 

I use this one:
http://www.metal-fi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/foo_dynamic_range_1.1.1.zip

I think it uses the same algorithm as above.

 

It's the same plugin with the 2011 expiry lock disabled.

 

Lol @Ash1412. It's like we're cyber linked.

 

Dear Friends, this freeware player has overtaken musicbee as my best sounding player:



http://vinylsoft.com/

 

Foobar on PC on Flac