General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    To decouple from the desk I use yoga blocks. They come in different sizes and you can always find something that would elevate the the driver, I use full range Fostex kit, to you ears level.
     
  2. artur9

    artur9 Facebook Friend

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  3. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I know @Gaspasser built an MTM version of the Overnight Sensations

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ernight-sensations-mt.3072/page-2#post-184283
     
  4. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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  5. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

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    I was also thinking about decoupling. In theory, for decoupling the material has to absorb vibration. In other words, it shouldn't jump when thrown on the floor. I want to try foam earplugs with memory effect when I fix my speaker :)
     
  6. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    So I had an audition over the weekend that has left me rather confused.

    I went to hear the JBL 4367 which I heard a year ago and was planning on buying after this audition.

    [​IMG]
    Mcintosh everything, not ideal but should be OK.

    Speakers about 6 feet apart and 4 feet from wall (not ideal), couch was about 6 feet from the drivers.

    [​IMG]

    We found the white chair to be much better which was about 10 feet back from the driver.

    They sounded really average.
    Mids were sucked out, bass was soft and lacked punch and extension, it was totally rolled off, vocals were recessed and it just sounded bad. There were moments when it sounded OK but the speakers weren't vanishing and giving me the crazy dynamics I remembered from my first audition.

    The speakers should of been closer to the rear wall and side wall, they should of been on stands, the room could have been better treated and mcintosh is really average for the $$.
    But i think the room was probably the biggest issue.

    When i got home it felt like my room had suddenly shrunk..

    [​IMG]
    left is metric in metres
    right is in feet.

    JBL recommend 0.5 metres from the side wall, 40 degrees minimum between the speakers and the listener and six feet between the speakers minimum.
    According to JBL specs I JUST scrape through. By the skin of my teeth...

    I searched for nearly two years to find an efficient speaker that was dynamic, involving, lively and also accurate. The JBL 4367 was the least compromised in my budget.

    This room will be a compromise, and I can't move into a bigger space till we move on from this house in 5 years or so..
    What does the SBAF brains trust think.. Maybe the 4367 will sound bad in this room, maybe I should stick with monitors.

    Plus my EC studio is not going to drive the 6ohm 94db speakers to 90db.. So I need to start planning for a higher watt amp.

    Bonus (for putting up with my first world problems).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I usually hate the B n W totls, this was actually a really nice example of what they can do. I still wouldn't buy them as resolution was a bit mediocre and they wern't epically dynamic but the bass response and mid range was actually really good. This set up absolutely smoked the 4367. I would have loved to have heard the jbl in this room with this amp and the Linn streamer/dac/pre into the D'Agostino.
     
  7. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    @Xecuter As always, very interesting to read your posts!
    Since you're looking for awesome high efficiency speakers (which are rare as f**k to find), and those JBL cost $15k...it wouldn't be a bad idea to comission a custom pair of speakers, tailor made for your room.
    Something 16 ohm and 95db-1 watt would be doable with an Acoustic Elegance TD12X woofer, an ATC SM75-150S mid dome (discontinued and hard to find) and a Raal 140-15D tweeter and would be tits if properly integrated. Horns open another world of possibilities too.
    I don't know exactly and never heard one of their speakers, but Redspade Audio is based in Australia and does custom speakers according to their blog.

    It's only a crazy idea and probably a hit or miss , but maybe it could be worth trying.
     
  8. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    @9suns I was just in Melbourne and didn't get a chance to visit red spade (they are in the middle of nowhere),
    I thought about getting something custom, but honestly I wanted a really simple solution. Such a speaker would probably look like what I enjoyed in Singapore:

    [​IMG]

    My Mrs would kill me..
     
  9. artur9

    artur9 Facebook Friend

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    I have a smallish room (about 9.5 by 12 with another 8/9 ft behind the MLP) and I cannot decide whether to go Magnepan (3.7i) or something else. Originally, for various reasons, I was thinking of getting Trenner & Friedl Suns which are tiny and sound very good but for the price I feel I may be able to do better. I'm not interested in DIY.

    In any case, whatever I get will be paired with subwoofers I already have and like for music that go up to 100Hz.. So no need to plumb depths.

    I own Vienna Acoustics Haydn and Waltz, and I've heard the T&F Suns, Joseph Audio Pulsar, Prism and Profile (loved the Profile, preferred Prism over Pulsar), Sonus Faber, Totem, B&W .

    I'm really looking to improve soundstage depth. I enjoy systems with precise imaging but real life doesn't have that pinpoint imaging so I'd sacrifice that some for better sound stage depth/width.

    Other equipment is Lyngdorf DPA-1, Gungnir Multibit, Odyssey amps.
     
  10. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    My room is about 12x16, albeit with slanted walls, and I find the MG12s (about the same as the .7 size wise) to be borderline too big for the space. If you are set on 3.7s be sure and listen to them in a space your size and make sure they sound the way you want them to. You are going to be listening in effectively nearfield.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  11. artur9

    artur9 Facebook Friend

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    Yeah, that's my concern but Magnepan fans are insisting the bigger the better even in tiny rooms.

    I think they all want that speaker from Back to the Future.
     
  12. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I wouldn't bother with anything around 15 kilobuck range without a measuring mic. Get that and some way to digitally room compensate.
     
  13. direstraitsfan98

    direstraitsfan98 D2Girls v2.0

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    We’ve already talked in private Xec, but I wanted to reiterate what I told you here so others can see: I think the JBL need quite a bit more than 6 feet apart to sound coherent, and you do need to be sitting at least 3 meters back. I have mine 12.5 feet apart and I sit 9.5 feet back. They sound simply sublime. At these angles you do need to toe in. I also believe that major contributing factor to the JBL’s seemingly substandard performance was the amount of stuff behind and beside them. You’re going to want to get the dealer to give the JBL some space. I have mine up close to my walls but I have a feeling setting them up into the room and having a bunch of 100kg speakers crowding the area is going to make for an unsatisfactory listening environment. That’s just my hunch anyway based on my personal experience versus yours. Another reason I feel my theory has some weight to it was the performance of the b&w speakers. The reason they sounded better was most certainly the room.

    Best of luck Xec, I really hope you can get what you’re looking for. That is good stereo sound :p
     
  14. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Bigger panels will give you better bass, bigger tweeters will probably be way too lively though. You said you had subs already though so I assume bass is not a concern. Also, being pretty inefficient, the Maggies will want lots of power unless you only listen at low volumes, and lots of power means lots of heat unless you are running Class D. I've commented on my issues with hot amps in small rooms on the Vidar thread, and it is something to consider.

    I think a calibrated mic is a must have for any system in any room. They are so inexpensive there is no real reason not to.
     
  15. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Even in a very well treated room to get better tonality, you're still going to have to deal with the physical limits of a two-way speaker with a massive 15 inch woofer and a compression driver tweeter. JBL has always been retarded like that. You must pay thousands to get speakers that aren't plastic garbage and they still won't really have mid-range and treble detail. The old ones are pretty much detail-free and the newer plastic 300 and 700 series are lol.

    Why not just buy a better three way speaker with a smaller woofers? Who gives a shit if you can use special audio jewelry amps? There's no point in using something with messed up bass (transformers, tubes, mosfets distorting like tubes, bryston limpwrists) with speakers that only do bass well. Whatever sounds cool (lets not even get into questions of fidelity) about those audio jewelry amps is still going be heard (maybe) through the mid-range and treble of a 15 inch woofer and compression driver. Lots of audio gear is about impressing people by the sight and cost of it more than the sound of it. Get something that works better for you in your room. Bigger JBLs have a WOW factor on first impression sound but are still limited by design. The price for what are at heart two-way MDF, glorified PA speakers is absurd.

    @Hrodulf is right. Get a measurement mic and look into treatment and DSP. The room is right up there with the speakers in terms of importance. Worse but still good speakers in a good room > Great speakers in a bad room.

    @Kernel Kurtz Magnepans are so low-fidelity it doesn't matter. Just go big and use some class D PA amp as they have no dynamics or detail to start with. You're one step up from Martin Logan window screen fi.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  16. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    LOL I see you have strong opinions about what you like. Nothing wrong with that. Good thing for the disclaimer though.

    I would not mind a pair of Martin Logans at all actually, but that is just me ;)
     
  17. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    @direstraitsfan98 from what I can see you and other JBL owners are putting them much closer to the wall than JBL recommends.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Like this guy.
    If I do this I can easily get 8 maybe 9 feet between the drivers. Also I can sit further back than 8 feet (maybe 10 feet) but I was trying to keep the angle at around 40-60 degrees as per JBL..

    Anyway I think I might get them anyway. See how I go integrating.. I really haven't enjoyed another speaker nearly half as much since that initial audition a year ago..

    The room isn't ideal but it's bigger than most home theatres and living rooms
     
  18. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    You won’t see me saying this often, but I’m with @Psalmanazar here. The JBL 4637 and M2 are designs which rely solely on the bandwidth capabilites of the D2 compression driver. Generally I’m sceptical about CD use for high fidelity due to a number of fundamental challenges in a CD+WG system. Often CD’s sound like complete ass, think PA. If designed with care, they manage to not offend, but usually leave stuff out when compared to good domes. Of course, domes can’t really touch them in terms of efficiency and power handling (hence - SPL), so for PA you don’t really have a choice.

    I wouldn’t entirely bury the 4637/M2, as many folks genuinely like them, so they might work for you as well. After all, bad design is rarely lethal for a speaker, which is why there are so many different designs around.
     
  19. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    I have strong opinions usually stated bluntly and often crudely but I agree 100%. The 4637 and M2 seem to be designed to convey massive dynamics at reference volume levels to a large, treated room while sounding much more neutral tonally than a PA system. If the room is awful and large, you might as well just get whatever massive speakers (even less offensive PA speakers if your room is that large) for less money. If your room is smaller, a three way with a good mid-range dome will spank the JBL for detail.

    Near or midfield? Get something else. The 300 and 700 series are a joke. 305 on sale is under $200 per pair though so if someone wants to get the absolute cheapest thing...
     
  20. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I don't know how the D2 will behave when going gets rough. I know that up high it rolls off as a driver of its size should and the rest of the range is padded down to accommodate for that. Getting that reference level at 600Hz plus whatever the 2nd order filter lets in, that's the hard part as now we're talking about spitting serious air out of it. It's a double diaphragm design, so there's more displacement, but it should be able to fart out mid frequencies without compromising upper octave performance.

    BMS have an interesting series of double diaphragm coax CD's which supposedly can do mids, but they have a dedicated larger diaphragm for that with separate terminals and external filtering. Some people swear by those drivers, others outright hate them.

    For controlled directivity stuff larger Genelec 3-ways might be interesting. They can do loud, if needed. At the same time they won't be totl in terms of fidelity. But then again - nothing that likes going past 105dB is. Small-ish mid drivers generally have crappy efficiency and power handling, which limits 3-way design SPL.
     

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