That the crux of the mater I think. Few years ago I bought HD600 as my very first headphone and after few weeks I went to Bay Bloor radio to buy HD650 demo for a very low price. I tried them with Senn HDVA600 for maybe 5 minutes I I knew I would not buy them. Did not read Tyll at that time, and was in no position to critically listen to specific differences, but veiled and warm was my very first impression. I was influenced by the sound of HD600 as my only HP. Fast forward to present, and the same impression. I was looking for HD650 used just to add to HD800S and HD560 HD25 to have a "complete" picture, not anymore. I had a chance to listen vs my HD560 ovation which I prefer to HD600. No way, I am not buying HD650. I think it is entirely about personal preference, But there is one thing that irks me about this HD650 narrative, and it is the concept of extreme scaling. If you add 6k tube amp and 4k DAC to it, they are great. How about new Susvara and used BHA-1 for slightly less?