HE-6 Measurements (removing stock dampening, pad rolling, fuzzor)

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by Thujone, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    I think "ortho wall" should be one centralized frequency rather than a spread of frequencies like that, as it is more the product of tension rather than anything else. And the higher the tension, the higher the frequency, of course. For instance, I think in your spectrogram, your tension is at around 5KHz.

    But when it's spread out over a big area, I think it's due to other things (reflections?) rather than "ortho wall". Maybe this is why HE-6 owners swear by mods?

    Here's the spectro of LFF's Code-X:

    [​IMG]

    Notice how the ringing is centralized on 5-6KHz rather than spread out?

    Of course, this is kind of a skewered comparison. Luis most likely applied black magic to his Code-X (he admitted as much). I'm not confident I can take an ortho and make it this clean, either, but... just to say, I think this is the benchmark for orthos.

    Another benchmark is the Abyss modded by Marv:

    [​IMG]

    This one clearly looks like it has higher tension as the frequency is higher. Maybe that's why Marv kept writing "fast bass", and people go "WTF do yoo meen?"

    Either way, though, just food for thought. If you're happy with how your HE-6 sounds like now, I don't see why you have to change it. ;)
     
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  2. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    Sweet! Thanks for the comparisons. I see what you're saying, the spread of freq is slightly wider on the HE-6. I don't think I can simply blame my measuring setup either. There has to be some simple mods that can help tackle that area... I know you're on the Senn train, but do you have any ideas, Bill?
     
  3. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Friend

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    Driver sealing and pad sealing make a very noticeable difference. Sure you can have enough pad pressure but there's people who use the HFM rings to hold the Vegan pads which leave an air gap.
     
  4. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    I can't comment on the vegan pads (haven't bit the bullet... yet...) but I imagine there may be some issues based on diameter differences. In this case, sealing seems more important.
     
  5. joch

    joch Friend

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    From my experience, the driver sealing definitely shows a difference, and I think it's because the drivers and cups are dampened. (Others have suggested sorbothane, but this was reported as not noticeably better/different than the cheaper blu-tack.

    I've also tried sealing the vegans against the cups (with blu-tack) but I haven't heard any (substantive) improvements in the bass so that was left off due to it being a hassle to seal/unseal to adjust the pads.

    I've been using ohhgourami's suggested vegan mod and this has been fantastic. This gave the treble its bite again (vs the fuzzor -- which actually works better for the 500), and made it sublime. (The right amp WILL make the trebles smoother too as mentioned by others.) The driver (not the pad) seal focused the bass significantly.
     
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  6. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, I don't think it's your setup either. Or at least I don't think so based on other measurements I have seen.

    Not to say your HE-6 sounds like crap, of course. But that something else may be causing its treble to not appear clean enough, and that may beg some investigation if you're curious?

    Anyway, for cleaning things up, I've found that better seal (so blu tak mod?) and/or reflection damping (a la HD800) have sometimes yielded interesting results. So... maybe try lining the interior of the cups with something? I've found that felt is pretty effective, but microfiber clothes are much more effective.
     
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  7. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    Oh, I'm definitely curious. The addition of this (consistent) measurement setup has made me question a lot of tweaks I've made over the years and I'd very much like to quantify them in the future. AKA I see myself diving even more into the HE-6. Not because I don't like the sound, but because I bet there can be improvements.

    I've often thought about lining the inner wall of the cups (backside of the driver) with adhesive felt or rug liner or something else. What are the odds that all the cleanliness issues in the CSD/spectro are just from backwaves? I guess I'll find out. Dunno when, but I'll definitely post results!
     
  8. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, that's the spirit!

    Keep going until you know you've reached your utmost, right?

    Please post some photographic evidence of new things you have tried, too, if you can. I'm sure manufacturers would love to see so they can try and see if it's an improvement.
     
  9. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    I'll have to see what pads are on the pair that I'm borrowing. They definitely darken up the sound a bit, which I enjoy. Any treble harshness is long gone.

    Also listening with the Project Ember and enjoying it a great deal.
     
  10. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    Can you take a photo of them?

    Pads may be the reason we have big differences on the volume knob on Ember...
     
  11. joch

    joch Friend

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    How well is the Ember driving the 6?

    I'm not expecting it to sound like a speaker amp, but am interested in general impressions for its size as a HPA.
     
  12. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    Ember doesn't struggle at all with the HE-6, especially on high gain. I listen on low gain with 12:00 on the knob.
     
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  13. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Another thing to keep in mind with the CSDs and Spectrograms is that they use very different window functions by default.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_function#Higher-order_generalized_cosine_windows
    You can change these in the 'Analysis' tab in the Preferences.
    Play around with those settings for a bit.
    Right now I'm using Hamming (left) / Blackman-Harris 7-term (right) for my CSDs.

    For example:
    (This is what happens when you seal off the hole in the middle of the driver in the HD800 without inserting straws)
    A 56db floor CSD with 2ms Window and 'Use CSD mode' unchecked (to make it look closer to the Spectrogram):
    [​IMG]
    Hamming left, Blackman-Harris 7 right

    Spectrogram using similar settings and the same window:
    [​IMG]


    Now this is what happens when I use Blackman-Harris 7-term for the left side of the impulse and Hamming for the right side instead:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This really doesn't belong here but I thought I'd post it here since the CSD vs Spectrogram discussion came up.
    I will post my measurement rig + REW settings in the other thread soon.
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. KurtSvensson

    KurtSvensson Friend

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    The HE-500 originally measured at changstar had FAR less 4.5 - 5 khz ringing in what I believe is the same enclosure (don't own either so I can't say for sure unfortunately). Does anybody have a plausible theory as to why that is? I find this very curious.
     
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  15. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    I haven't personally measured the HE-500 on this particular measuring setup, so it's possible we would see similar things. Otherwise, I believe Marv measured both headphones on his V1 setup; those measurements are comparable.
     
  16. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    Once I get the HD-650, I'd be okay with sending my HE-500 to someone if they want to measure them, but they're completely unmodded other than Focus-A pads.
     
  17. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    Stock form is good. If you want to send them my way, we'd have a good comparison against the HE-6. I also have different pads to try. It's been a while since I owned the HE-500... wouldn't mind hearing them again.
     
  18. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    You're not allowed to listen to them, only measurements! :p
    I'll end up modding it someday with the fuzzor and maybe taking out the little bit of fabric under the grill just to see.
    We'd probably be looking at spring sometime, since I don't want to be stuck with nothing but Grados.
     
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  19. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    Not a problem, I'm in no hurry. We don't need you stuck with only Grados.
     
  20. mtoc

    mtoc SBAF's Resident Shit-Stirrer

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    hello, guys, he6 sound better with lcd pads (the cheaper one, not the leather one.)
     

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