Hifiman HE-6SE

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    this playnar headphone with this topology amp is simply not the proper pairing to chase or try to "tweak" into some acceptable synergy.
    walk it back.
     
  2. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    FWIW - figured that 6se is absolutely not ideal with Stellaris. But based on memory hearing 3 different HE6 (all modded) and 2 HE6se (neither modded) on appropriate gear + new HE6se on Stellaris, mod requests were extrapolated. (IMO the Schiit house sound would be pretty ideal but as posted above not sure I want to buy stuff just for HE6se). On the flip side, Stellaris makes so many things sound good that it still almost kind of works and it makes me want to not spend $ until I find the amp I really want. Maybe even wait until I figure out what to use with a SR1a (and how to fix the headband) and just run both off the same integrated or amp/pre-amp combo.

    Main concern is I have only heard a few modded HE6 but not HE6se. And that none of the 6se were modded. If 6se has changed significantly in mod-ability department for the worse, they're going back. Modded and properly driver HE6 still had the same issues I want to change with mods existing, but all 3 modders were good and issues were already 90% or more resolved.

    There is also the consideration that HE6se once modded excels at bass while doing almost everything else 7.5-8/10... but running SR1a concurrent to a great sub is also excels bass but with everything else 8.5-9.5/10. Granted I'm not ready for SR1a yet due to handband and I don't know when I'll be ready... if it's not for 2-3 more years after Raal gains momentum and has more time/budget to do a different headband, then yeah, HE6se totally worth using for those 3 years. However, this is realistically all speculation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  3. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    fp627, take this with a grain of salt as I've not heard the HE6se (I only have the 4-screw HE-6), others have confirmed that the HE6se shares similar (or the same) drivers as the 6-screw HE-6s and overall sonic presentation. You might want to search for modifications for 6-screw HE-6 versions. The open grill mod seems to overlap for both driver versions of the HE-6, and should open up the headstage for the SE. I haven't done the open grill mod because I'm pretty happy with the width and don't place much priority on headstage when it comes to headphones.

    I agree with jexby, you need a different amp for the HE-6.

    Once you get that, I think you should do the open grill mod and swap pads. I have ZMF suede non-perf Auteur pads, as they were the closet I could get to the discontinued Audeze Vegans. Super comfortable and tames the excess treble energy enough, but not completely (this could be tackled with a darker sounding DAC, like a Modi Multibit). The SE should be warmer than my 4-screw though.

    I recommend looking at @cskippy 's various pads measurements used on the HE-6 here:

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hifiman-he-6.539/page-29#post-178526

    This might help you make a more informed purchase decision.

    Oh and cskippy posted this earlier in the thread:
    Once you get a proper amp for the HE6se, in order of making a significant difference would be pad rolling and grill mod.

    Not sure if the HE6se headband has a metal band in it, but you should be able to bend it to your liking.
    EDIT: Nevermind, I looked at hi-rez images of the headphone and it doesn't. Not sure if you're gonna be able to flex that metal band out that holds the earcups outwards

    FWIW.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  4. rrwwss52

    rrwwss52 New

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    The Headroom GSX-mini and Schiit Mjolnir2 both have pretty enough juice to power the HE-6se. The GSX-mini is a superb headphone amp.
     
  5. skem

    skem Friend

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    FirstWatt F5 Turbo clone remains my favorite for OG HE6. Or XA30.8 if you need more slam, but my guess is XA30.8 is too noisy and bass-forward for the SE version. XA25 doesn’t work for some reason.

    For those who feel HE6 variants never satisfied them enough to be a regular can, I’d say try again with a serious and clean speaker amp, like those above. Such amps truly transform the OG HE6, HEK v1&2, and other inefficient planars. My guess is that such an amp will do so for the SE version too.

    I strongly recommend against the Benchmark stuff. It’s powerful and clean enough, but op-amp feedback central and lifeless presentation. Great tube gear also squeaks by with a pleasant presentation, but you’re still really missing out on dynamics and control. You need fast slewing current *and* voltage for these things!

    As for mods, I’d do the felt mod and probably nothing more. I preferred Virgin HE6 to the de-grilled HE6, once powered by a speaker amp. You can hate Fan for lots of reasons, but I don’t think he leaves his cans underdeveloped/untuned. Each model seems to achieve some ideal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  6. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    @skem have you ever used the Vidar with the HE-6? If so, how does it compare with the FirstWatt F5 Turbo clone? I find the Vidar to be fantastic at bass: slam, heft, articulation, volume changes etc. (especially with speakers). If you are someone who cares more about mids and higher frequencies, and you have the money, not sure I would recommend the Vidar as its a little dull sounding here. That might all change with the Convert-2 coming in and I can try the HE-6 with dual Vidars.
     
  7. skem

    skem Friend

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    I haven’t heard Vidar. I think you answered your question, tough. Trusted people say it’s great for the money... but limited. at Stellaris prices... there are better options.

    That said, F5 is not that expensive either. Would be fun to compare.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  8. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    I can't say the same when I had the HE6se on trial. Actually loved the pairing, technically very impressive with no major flaws apart from the typical plannar sound of frequencies not blending together nicely.
    I had a listen to the HE6 on AHB2 once so I have a memory of how it should sound like, Stellaris isn't the problem.
     
  9. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    I've tried the HE1000 from the speaker taps of my MHA150. The timbre changed, not in a good way. HE6se gave better results.

    There's really no risk of damaging an amp designed for 8 ohm speakers when using it with 50 ohm headphones? I talked to the guys from Abyss about this, they were adamant that driving an AB-1266 from a speaker amp would damage the amp.
     
  10. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    @dubharmonic probably wouldn't want to drive a pair of current-sucking planars from an OPT tube speaker amp (don't want to tax the output transformers) but solid-state should be fine.

    I've plugged my HE6 into every SS or hybrid (SS output stage) amp at Upscale and never had an issue aside from a high noise floor on the high-gain amps. HE6 is harder to drive than AB-1266 or LCD-4.
     
  11. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    So I sold my LCD3 unexpectedly so don't need to worry about that pairing anymore.

    After more reading and research, I've decided on a DIY amp once I have a little more time again. Most likely a First Watt design - maybe an F5 (no transformer) or M2 (transformer). If that doesn't work out after it's built, no big as these aren't too costly and I'll just wait until I use whatever I would use with Sr1a.
     
  12. skem

    skem Friend

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    I don't know WTF these Abyss bozos are thinking. Ohm's law, guys.

    Current = Voltage / Resistance

    That means when you go to higher impedance devices (e.g., from 8 ohm speakers to 50 ohm headphones) the amp has to provide *less* current and works *less* hard. You're not going to damage anything. Doesn't matter if it's transistors, OPT tube, OTL, etc.

    None of this guarantees the distortion will be low, which depending on the design may drop as the load draws more current—which may explain dubharmonic's experience. But in any case, you won't damage the amp. You're much more likely to damage headphones from overpowering them, but that's a different matter.

    Nerd note: there is something called reactive power—which is why DC resistance and AC impedance have different names. But the quoted headphone impedance is actually the DC resistance, which is a lower bound. The true impedance magnitude is |Z| = sqrt(R^2+X^2), where X is the sum of the real-valued reactances from inductive and capacitive loading. Because the square of X (a real number) is always positive, these effects can only increase the total impedance with respect to the purely resistive baseline. So again, bigger is better from the amp's current-draw perspective. In other words, nothing to worry about. Now it's true that some electrical circuits are deigned to favor inductive or capacitive loads with respect to distortion, but I'm fairly sure headphones are all around less reactive in both capacitive or inductive directions than crossovers in typical multi-way speaker.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  13. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Evan, does this still hold true for you, that a cable off the taps is better than the Hifiman adapter?
     
  14. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    I pulled the trigger on the he6se on sale, supposed to get this Friday.
    So I'm finally going to build my ACA, but with a few changes, mostly per this thread
    https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/328357-aca-amp-premium.html
    Also using a smaller output cap since I'm building for a 50 ohm load, not a 4 ohm load.
    I have a couple other amps to try, my diy 45 dht headphone amp and a diy sympatico speaker amp.
    Collecting parts for a 25 watt class a amp, which I hope will be the final solution.
     
  15. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    I tried my #45 amp, and not enough power. It distorted at higher volume.
    Then tried a single ACA. Better, has more power, but I still feel like it needs a little more. I expect two ACA's would be fine, as E_Schaaf has reported, but I'm not going to buy another one.
    Last night, connected my diy Twisted Pear Audio Sympatico. Supposed to put out 100W into 8 ohms. Finally more than enough power.
    I have a little adapter I made to connect a 4 pin xlr to the speaker posts.
    Now burning in cans some more.
    Not sure if this is my final solution, still plan to build a 20W or so class A, but this sounds pretty good, so should keep me happy for a while.

    Randy
     
  16. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    Here's a gif of someone running a HE-6 at absurd levels of power: https://external-preview.redd.it/2i...p4&s=065c1a1f9721059f5a6182720a3d193bdca9fffb


    Here's what he had to say about it:

    HE6.PNG

    Makes you wonder. Either the headphone adapter fucks with the amount of power actually going to the HE-6 (due to the 25 ohm parallel resistors and 10 ohm resistors in series,) or Orthos really do need a shit ton of current. I mean, the HE-6 is 74dB/mW...which is batshit insane.
     
  17. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    How is that absurd? When I had the HE-6 with my monoblock Vidars @ 50ohm that could have an output power of 64W to each driver. If my numbers are right, that is more power than ohhgourami's monster Krell 302e. But as frenchbat said earlier, it's more about needing clean current than they need power. Although with the addition of another Vidar, good grief it makes a single Vidar look underpowered in comparison. The HE-6 loves to gob up that power. I also felt the harmonics were a lot tighter with the more power you give them, but they still are slightly off compared to dynamic drivers. Oh and if you do have a "cloudiness" in the bass, it's because they still don't have enough power.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  18. skem

    skem Friend

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    It’s remarkable that such a product ever came to market. Thank the headphone gods it did.

    W.R.T., Abyss guys’ comment... There is a difference between needing (transient) current to sound good and drawing sustained current to overload the amp.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  19. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    The McIntosh MHA150 meters show similar results with the HE6se, and they're not even that loud.
     
  20. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I meant "absurd" as "extremely silly or ridiculous in a humorous" way. Not in a "that's illogical and unsound" way.
     

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