Hifiman HE-6SE

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    I got to hear a stock 6-screw HE-6 and my HE6SE off of a MHA150 at a meet. That amp more than powers everything beautifully. It is a beast of a headphone amp.
     
  2. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    @Gaspasser did you use the speaker taps, headphone out, or both? I think the headphone out on high gain works just as well as the speaker taps.
     
  3. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    Speaker taps with adapter. The owner of the MHA-150 said speaker taps > HP out.

    edit: MHA-100 not 150
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  4. sfoclt

    sfoclt Friend

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    How are the impedance options for the headphone out of the MHA-150 implemented? From photos, it looks like the speaker outs are only 8 ohm taps.

    The description of the MHA-150 says the headphone impedance ranges are from the autoformer, so I'd rather use that than speaker outs if nothing else in the path. I use a 2505 to power mine and the 16 ohm speaker taps off the autoformer are great (options are 4/8/16).
     
  5. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    Yes, the speaker out is only 50 watts at 8Ω.

    The headphone out has more options:
    • 8 to 40 Ω Norm
    • 40 to 150 Ω Norm
    • 150 to 600 Ω Norm
    • 8 to 40 Ω High
    • 40 to 150 Ω High
    • 150 to 600 Ω High

    They state that the high rating is 1 watt. Driving the HE6se directly from the speaker taps does change the tonality a bit, but I wouldn't call it a definite improvement. Driving the HE1000se directly from the speaker taps gave me a headache.
     
  6. bilboda

    bilboda Florida boomer

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    Too much time on my hands is causing a heat wave in SoFla, in my room.
    Purchased a Adcom GFA-5500 from Ebay that had recently left an Adcom auth repair shop. 200 watts per channel.
    A Nelson Pass design with mosfet outputs. DIYAudio threads are very informative with the Adcom amps.
    I did adjust bias and DC offset a bit and put it to use.
    It's complicated to A/B with the GFA-535 but I will do that at a later date.

    Just addictive with the HE6SE. Percussion has more impact and precision, Vocals are liquid and fully rendered.
    Andra Day and Cassandra Wilson never sounded better. Plankton must be better as the vocals are more fully realized.

    Quiet sections of classical music don't become almost inaudible at normal listening levels.
    Instrument placement is more precise, Busy passages lest congested, bass more resolving.

    Dialogue in streaming videos can have the same problem as the conversation moves into more intimate space and whisper like. Not with this amp. Again the voice is mere fully realized. I don't need to increase the volume to make it intelligible.

    I just don't remember this fidelity with the GFA-535 or any other set up.

    Waiting for winter ( Maybe up to a week, likely in February) to leave the amp on for several days and readjust bias and DC offset. I have read it performs optimally when left on. An amp stand is incoming to get it off the wood floor.

    Amp runs cooler with the Verum 1 and performs very very well but the HE6SE takes the crown.
    This is likely to be my new daily driver, it just sounds that good.
     
  7. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I'm working on @neogeosnk 's pair right now and figured I'd share some notes about my thoughts vs the HE6 and modding potential.

    Here's the stock FR on my measurement rig (the ~8.5k and more minor ~5k dips are artifacts that I haven't adjusted my compensation curve for yet) -

    [​IMG]

    And here's what I have so far modded (ignore the sub roll-off, I haven't taped the pads in place yet) -

    [​IMG]

    HD650 for reference (recorded at a different time at a different dB, more smoothing, but same comp curve and rig so should be good for relative comparison here) -

    [​IMG]

    I ended up covering about 1/6 of the driver's surface area with small, very thin cuts of melamine (good for bringing down 5k+ and diffusing treble energy) and stiff felt (great for darkening the 3-4k area). Asymmetrical placement for some control over the imaging - trying to find a way to bring more focus to the center since the HE6 has always been a bit diffusive here. Some rug liner to keep these in place and reduce ringing, and some very sheer acoustic fiber paper I took from the RAD lab (a lot like TP but not quite as impeding). Swapped to deeper custom oval pads as well (similar dimensions and materials as the slanted HM5 or LFF pads), which give a touch of extra mid-bass when taped in place. These changes fixed most of my FR concerns for a more linear response and a bit more control on-top.

    Construction-wise, the 6SE is a PITA. The six screws are not equidistant, so the foam and metal rings that go over the driver's screw-holes have to be positioned in a specific way to hold in place. The screws themselves are soft and prone to stripping. These things were somewhat true for the OG HE6, but the plastic mounting ring in that case was cut in a way that made the orientation obvious so there was no guess-work. There is also less space between the edges of the mounting ring and the front face of the driver - so the material cuts I have to make must be more precise. Normally I can just screw everything tightly in place, but now I'm considering adhesives (assuming sound quality is unchanged) if I can't consistently get a tightly tensioned fit.

    The headband assembly cannot be unscrewed from the 'cups' easily either - so either I have to leave the drivers wired up and deal with gravity and impossible angles while trying to apply mods (which is what I've been doing), or I have to snip the wires and re-solder later (another nuisance).

    They've changed the pad rings as well so that the plastic clips can only enter from certain angles - this is an annoyance and will probably force me to use double stick tape for any pads other than the stock ones. The area between the sides of the driver and the plastic housing has been reduced - so there's no room to play with things like blu-tack. There are a few cavities for mass-loading though - that's the next thing I'll try.

    It would take some convincing for me to mod another pair of 6SE's - they're laborious. It's almost as if HFM designed this intentionally to deter modders. I would consider transplanting the drivers into a housing that's easier to work with though. I wish all headphones were as easy as the Senn 580-6xx to disassemble and reassemble.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  8. mdr30

    mdr30 Acquaintance

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    10 dB scales?
     
  9. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I'll re-test before I send them back off to neogeo with a narrower dB window. These were just quick and dirty measurements as a proof of concept for the modding materials I was using before finalizing positioning and whatnot.
     
  10. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    @ESchaaf , very interested for any updates regarding the modding of @neogeosnk's HE6SE's. It would be great to hear impressions as well as see updated graphs after your work is done.

    I have read conflicted reports regarding fuzzor mod versus just swapping to new pads. I have the Ether angled pads on now (pre memory foam revision) and enjoy some reduction in the treble hotness. In your experience is the melamine in select areas a greater advantage than fuzzor array?

    My plan is to try a few things out over the next few weeks, but thought I would try and take advantage of all the work you have already completed. If you think you would like to work on another set at some point I would be glad to work with you.
     
  11. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I'm hoping to meet up with him in the next week or two to finish mods, take measurements, etc. If he wants to share pictures, impressions, etc, he can feel free!

    I'm not really in a place to take on more commissions in the foreseeable future (the last few have already taken way longer than I've wanted and I've felt guilty leaving friends hanging), but if you let me know what kind of sonic changes you're hoping to achieve with mods I'll let you know where I'd start and if the expectations are reasonable / achievable. Or if you're in SoCal, there's always a chance I could schedule a time and we can mod together.

    People stopped doing the fuzzor mod a few years ago because a layer of rug liner does basically the same thing and isn't nearly as laborious. Both fuzzor and rug liner don't really show measurable difference, but there is subjective difference vs stock. Melamine makes a much bigger difference in terms of FR and very little should be used on the front. Doesn't filter out high treble either - mostly upper mids like that 3k bump.

    Only way to deal with high-treble IME is to use purpose-specific acoustic paper, which isn't really accessible to most people since things like this require large batch orders. I get mine from the RAD lab - a perk of working there. TP is similar but doesn't create as linear a shelf, and won't reach frequencies as high.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  12. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Will gladly share impressions/pics etc.
     
  13. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    I appreciate the quick reply. I assume it would be the thinnest rug liner available...but should it sit on the outside of the plastic ring, or be cut to shape and forced beneath it for the best effect? Glue it down?

    My biggest concern in the sound sig is that they become a bit fatiguing in the upper mids/treble. For reference my other current favorite headphone is the Ether C Flow 1.1 with no tuning filters. Using the two notch white filters with the Ether pads and finding it tames some of the highest frequencies but also muffles the overall sound signature.

    I would like to get away from tuning filters and will start with the rug liner. Melamine seems pretty easy to find at craft and home stores, so probably try that out after some time with the liner.

    Looking forward to your impressions Neogeosnk
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  14. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I don't use glue. I just cut to shape using a perfectly-sized stencil and shears, put under the metal screw ring, and screw it down - tends to hold pretty well. The stuff I use is on the finer and thinner side (same stuff as LFF) - not huge and puffy with big holes like that recommended for HD800.

    The easiest way to mod is to simply make cut-outs and slip them into your pads. Screwing down can help create a tidier appearance, and possibly reduce mild distortion spikes compared to simply shoving materials into the pads (direct contact may likely be beneficial for vibration-controlling materials like rug liner specifically), but if you start with pad inserts you can get a feel for what to expect before making exact cuts and dealing with the PITA of unscrewing and all that.

    Thin woven fabrics will help with the 3k bump but wont filter high treble. You can always do a half-cut and place them at a slant inside your pads too for partial covering. Assume any front filters will kill dynamics if stacked/layered - the only exception is TP, which doesn't damp dynamics much IME. So work with one thing at a time.

    Rug liner gives more of a smoothing than a shelving effect - it won't reduce treble. I'd start there, take off the grills, swap some pads. That'll take you 95% of the way there.
     
  15. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    Thanks @E_Schaaf for the good direction. I have a good starting point and will provide impressions!
     
  16. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    Thinking I might have just smoked these headphones.

    I was moving some boxes around and had the power come out of the GLMK2...plugged it all back in and no sound coming from the HE6SE's, not even a hum or a buzz. The amp is still working as i can listen out of other headphones.

    Anyone know of another way to test or signs to look for. There is no smell or obvious signs of damage...just no sound.

    Edit: Well, just confirmed drivers are toast hopefully they can be fixed quickly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  17. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    I have taken the advice of @E_Schaaf and started to play around with different simple mods (pads, carpet liner, rear grills, etc.) and have found somewhat of a sweet spot.

    Setup:
    PC -> Tidal HIFI -> Modi 3 -> Saga+ -> Adcom GFA-545 ->HE6SE

    I tested a bunch of pads, but feel that the Ether C angled pads provide the most cohesive listening experience. Others i tried are:

    Ether C angled pads...the most enjoyable for me, these are the older version with softer foam. I would like to try the revised, but am waiting (touch on that later). I have lined the back of the pad with felt to reduce reflections which I feel did wonders for the sound. These are comfortable and mount to the stock hifiman rings very easily. They seem to seam very well and bass impact is nice and strong and the transition into the mids and treble seems natural and cohesive. I do not notice any glaring frequencies and I have been listening to these for hours at a time without fatigue.

    Voce Pads...Did not do any favors to the headphone, just became overly fatiguing with the excessive space and information hitting the ears/side of head. They were very comfortable, but because of the cavity space sounded different each time i put them on my head unless I made sure to place them with the back of my ear as a reference point.

    Ether 2 Suede Pads...The new mounting system works very well with the HE6SE and provides a nice seal. I hope that they bring out the angled Ether C pads with this mount setup. The pads were comfortable but really messed with the frequency response to my ears. The bass is slightly elevated and is actually very nice, but the highs become very disjointed from the rest of the frequency spectrum. Its as if you are listening to two drivers which focus on the lows and the highs...the mids just get sucked out. I have a feeling that the reflections off of the back of the pad are creating the disjointed sound.

    Hifiman Focuspads hybrid...Comfortable pad, and sound very good. They are a bit aggressive and a bit warm sounding in the midbass and are the original reason I wanted to own the HE6SE (from the loaner tour). Prior to the carpet liner and rear grill removal they were much more aggressive, but with it they are toned down enough to provide a very good listening experience albeit more intense than the Ether C angled.

    Random Ebay Pad(purchased cheap for the mounting rings)...Dont buy cheap ebay pads. They are very soft and put the driver right on my ear essentially. Very harsh sounding...to close.

    Looking forward, I am going to pick up the Ori and Eikon leather pads to try out. I may go for velour Ori for variation, but overall I prefer leather pads. Also considering a Vidar to replace the current amp.


    To speak to the other mods. The most obvious improvement was removal of the rear grills, but the addition of the carpet liner, while not immediately noticeable had the side affect of allowing longer listening time. I have played around with the DCA tuning pads and like the addition of the black foam.

    Beyond tuning changes to the headphones...as was previously recommended, going from the GLMK2 to a Saga + for preamp duty made a significant improvement to overall listening. I have much more volume control on the Saga+, which was a big surprise. With the GLMK2 I could increase volume from 0 to only around 10 o'clock, with the Saga+ listening levels range from 0 to between 1 and 2 o'clock depending on the recording. The tube buffer is also a nice bonus that provides greater sense of depth (particularly with live recordings).
     
  18. Brian Jones

    Brian Jones New

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    I'm looking for a headphone amp/dac that's a good match for my new HE6se headphones that arrive today. Originally I was going to buy a new Bifrost and Jotunheim from Schiit. Then I read a speaker amp would be better so I was considering the Vidar with a preamp/dac or possibly a fully loaded Ragnarok. Then I read the schiit stuff might just be hyped up so now I'm considering other options. Eventually I will probably get a FirstWatt J2 since I've heard good things about that amp but I just need something in the meantime. How can I make the HE6se sound the best on a headphone amp with around $1-2k to spend?

    Amps I was considering:
    • Schiit Jotunheim (is the integrated dac ok or do I need to get a Bifrost?)
    • Monolith THX AAA 887
    • Monolith Liquid Platinum
    • Emotiva BasX A-100 (is the mini-x the same, better or worse?)
    • Vidar (is Aegir worth an extra $100?)
    • Schiit Ragnarok fully loaded

    DACs I was considering are (do I need a balanced dac if I get a balanced amp?)
    • Schiit multibit dac (bifrost probably)
    • Topping D50s or D70
    • ADI-2 DAC FS (Can I use this to control volume of speaker amps? Can get 1st gen used for ~$800. How does this compare to the bifrost and D50/70? Looks more appealing to me cuz the volume control and eq)
    What setup would give the best bass? Anything else that sounds good for ~$1-2k that I missed? How would the cheapest options here (887/A-100 plus D50s) stack up agaist the more expensive options like jot/Bifrost Multibit or speaker amps like the Vidar or Ragnarok with the ADI-2? Would I even notice much of a difference to my untrained ears?

    Also planning on doing some minor mods like removing the grill and getting a new cable and earpads. Anything else recommended? Thanks everyone.

    TLDR: What's the best setup for $1-2k that gives the best bass from the HE6se
     
  19. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    I was playing around with some front dampening last night and was surprised that the drivers slide out of the housing so easily. Luckily I was working closely over a soft table or those little wires surely would have snapped.

    What I then noticed was just how hollow the cup housing material is. The cups seem to be a type of fiberglass based on the feel of the screws grinding against it. I immediately thought of other headphones, (like the HD650 kiss mod) and wondering if adding material to the cup housing to reduce resonance (assuming their would be) or cub vibration? I am not sure it matters so much with an open back, but it was something that made me curious. Has anyone played around with this?

    The driver itself is very solidly built with a whole lot of bolts holding it together, but because of the housing material, it is hard to know how much force to apply to the screws holding it in. I now understand the quote
    In other news. I have been playing around with multiple pads from ZMF and DCA. For ZMF I have the BE2 Perforated, Auteur solid LS, and Ori Hybrid Solid. The Ori's were the clear favorite when listening through the Jot. with Airist R2R DAC and I thought that they were going to be "the ones." Then I tried the DCA Ether 2 solid pads and am finding that I think i enjoy it more. The sound is fuller (perhaps because it is solid) and more engaged (im guessing due to the thinner pad design). The DCA pad mounting adhesive is creating such a nice seal that I think the bass has increased in its impact and reach into the low end, certainly over the auteur LS. I am going to try and add the spare adhesive tape to the Ori hybrids because I really like their comfort.

    I have some more listening to do to compare them and will be back to do so later!
     
  20. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Yes. I've filled those cavities up with all sorts of things. The bottom end will tighten up and you'll get less glare in the treble, but you also lose a bit of tactility in the bass and some sustain/decay - it almost tightens up so much it becomes strained - too 'clicky' and not enough follow-through. More mid-centric. Makes the need for a slamming bassy ballsy amp even greater. Hard to explain. FR unaffected. Maybe a light touch could be nice. It's a bit like the blutac mod on that front. Best result I've gotten is simply using custom-made solid wood rings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020

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