Hifiman HE-6SE

Got any of those wood rings lying around!?!

Thank you for the great insight!
Time to play some more.

 

Do you hear something about Flux Lab Acoustics FA-10? I think it very good pair for HE6 and you can add it to your list. 16 Watt per channel - HE6 say "Thanks" )))

Ragnarok fully loaded recommend as well, but it speakers amp first and I hear more noise on background.

 

After the stock pads irreversibly fell apart during a pad swap, I picked up some Dekoni Elite Velour replacements.



The quality is far higher than any of the 5 pads I've used from Hifiman, though not as high as ZMF pads.

The sound is more relaxed than stock, but that's what I was shooting for. For reference, I vastly prefer the ZMF Auteur with suede pads over lambskin.

Does the Hifiman pad assembly also drive everyone else nuts?

 

^^ Still experimenting with different pads on HE6se but yeah... stock pads leave a bit to be desired.

On a different note just received the Liquid Crimson and much to my surprise, per my tastes the LC and my lightly modded HE6se (far from complete) sound much better than expected together. Of course it's not as good as a very good speaker amp (that also delivers much more power) with taps + pre-amp (and possibly other equipment for adapting) but it's better than some of the speaker amp + pre + taps setups I've heard.

 

Spent the evening and night basically wiping my old HE6-se mods clean and starting fresh with LC.

I realize I may be asking for some secret sauce or for some of the blood/sweat/tears portion, but if anyone is willing to share it'd be much appreciated as it's going to save a good amount of time with continual tweaks, hunting down small bits of lots of misc materials, etc. for anyone modding these (FWIW, I if find answers separately from SBAF I'll share too unless they request I don't). That and despite me modding most of my stuff for other hobbies and modding my BH crack, etc... somehow I'm a pansy when it comes to most headphone mods.

1. Anyone know what pitch the screws are that hold the driver in? It's M2.5 and 16mm long (from bottom of head to tip of screw), but every M2.5 screw I can find is the standard (metric) pitch of 0.45. This screw seems to be closer to 0.75 or 0.85 pitch but nothing comes up. These screws suck - I would like the replace them if possible otherwise the phillips portion of the head may be stripped with 1 or 2 more dis/assemblies.
EDIT 9/29: Measured with old school gauges that go in 0.05 pitch increments - Screw is M2.5, 0.90 pitch thread on the bottom half only, and 16mm long. Very non standard. Will need to see if someone in Europe or Asia can source this for me with hex or torx sockets - I can't find this anywhere in the US.

2. What are these materials from an old Mr Speakers (now DCA) Ether tuning kit given that these are no longer available (that I'm aware of). I purchased a spare kit or two at some point, don't remember if this was for Ether Flow original, EFO 1.1, etc. Answers in red are guesses or what it feels like to me.


3. Is the metal retaining ring (the metal ring that holds the driver assembly in place, faces in towards your ear when playing music) supposed to be wavy? I was expecting a flat circular ring (think of a washer) but instead it's unevenly and seemingly randomly ridged between some of the different screw sections... can't tell if the "ridges" are actually damage/dents (I didn't do it as far as I know) or if it came damaged from the factory - you can even see what looks like a small punch/dent toward the upper right of the ring in the below picture.


4. On the outside of the driver housing, there is a felt material running along the edges with some sort of plastic or dried glue underneath that isn't very even around where it bends (circled in red). Is it worth filling in? Tried little bits of cloth earlier - didn't notice much of a difference. Is the felt worth replacing or is it worth putting something over it (circled in green)?


5. There is a little foam ring under the retaining ring... has anyone replaced this with anything interesting? Or added any interesting materials to the foam ring itself? I have only tried removing it - didn't like the effect, just made things sound a bit messy with "leaky" bass.


6. The cup is pretty hollow with a good amount of space inside? Are people still filling with just something similar to blutack (circled in blue)? Also, what appears to be a cutout to hold the outside grill retainer/ring is circled in red - how do wood or other specialty cups attach (i.e. how careful do I need to be about not getting stuff into this area if I choose to use a large hole grill. Lastly, circled in yellow, I want to remove the cups from the band to work on them (easier), but if the screws are as crappy as the retaining screws for the driver - I'll just deal with it vs risk stripping these screws.


General questions:
Safety - I may know this already, but want to ask publicly for the benefit of others as well - with the grill removed, is there any risk of serious shock/harm if you accidentally touch anywhere (assume feet are touching ground)? I would guess the exposed leads where the wires are soldered but what about the metal sheet part of the driver?

I've tested a few pads and have found that while they aren't perfect, the new DCA EFO 1.1 lambskin or protein (can't totally tell) pads are the most fun while the ZMF Universe Perf Leather pads make the headphone somewhat more balanced per previous light modding or even just running with not mods except remove grill. Want to but haven't tried ZMF Ori pads yet. Any other suggestions?

Lastly, I'm experimenting with different TP, surgical mask materials, thin cloths/tapes, rug liners, Dynamat/similar car insulating materials, adhesive felts, cotton (so far a bit messy), and foams. Also going to try some Sugru in areas where I'm more confident that I will be able to properly remove it if needed. Does anyone else have any materials, patterns (application patterns, ex only 1 strip horizontally, etc) , or miscellaneous tricks they really like?

 

One more question - has anyone found a "best tape" to use when sticking earpads to HE6se? Tried small amounts plain scotch tape, vinyl tape (folded in on itself to become double sided) and a few others in a few spots on the outside edge- surprisingly noticed small differences in sound and sound quality. Will be trying foam tape tomorrow.

 

I use this for something different, but it's great double sided tape, and is extremely thin.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N167EZT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_rDDF17JiZ6gOQ

You may want to use the 1/4" or 1/8" versions. Doesn't look like there is much space to work with.

 

Random update - played around with a few different kinds of TP, the MrSpeakers tuning kit, several different types of cloth used as inserts, ace bandages, and earpads as mentioned above over the weekend.

So far results have been annoying. In reducing the excessive treble and spikes, I could get the sound quality good but in all of these cases it became extremely mid forward or in a few cases straight up sounded like tinny garbage. Or, get the frequency response mostly balanced, but have very noticeable decline in the finer points of sound quality (especially microdynamics, plankton, etc.).

I'm thinking that I need to play with pads, potentially cups on the outside or semi-open grills, and different pads some more first. Then stuff like blutack, maybe fuzzor. Fine tune with little materials after.

In short, many of the things that worked for HE6 don't seem to work as well or at all here.

 

Best Adhesive i found was the DCA replacement adhesive pads he sells for his EarPads. The DCA Ether 2 leather pads sound really amazing on the HE6se and are a perfect fit. Easily my favorite pad. IMO they are a step above the angled ether pads in comfort and sound quality.

3. Wavy because it’s thin and cheap metal. Not a big deal
4. Probably not worth the time, the more open the back of the driver the better
5. The foam is meant to cushion as it supports the driver. I can imagine using a denser material could have some dampening benefit, also would prevent the metal ring from bending when being tightened down.
6. Yes it would be good to fill those areas with some kind of clay like that comes with the Mayflower t50 mod kit. Increases the mass to defeat some of the reverb. Going to add a bit of weight though.

use some of the anti slip rug foam on the driver side under the pads. Cleans up the high a bit. It’s an easy mod and is all i needed to put in front of the driver for cleaner sound.

 

@E_Schaaf
Looked around for melamine but can't seem to find the sheets, only plywood/particle board/etc covered in melamine - could you share where you got yours or would you be open to sending some out? Normally would PM but I figure others may want some in the future too.

Also, tried a few different felts and dense foams - haven't found one I liked yet. Do you happen to have or remember what brand of felt or specs/misc info on the felt you used / like?

FWIW for everyone else, so far continuous modding the last 4 days largely agrees with the results posted by e_schaaf. I suspect I'm going for a slightly different tune, but subjective performance aspects such as "tighter bass" mostly agree.

 

I had a friend use a table saw to cut me thin sheets, but I purchased them as 'magic erasers' on amazon.

I still suggest rolling pads before doing physical mods with the 6SE specifically. They are extremely fickle when it comes to materials, placement, etc. They do have smoother treble than the other HE6's, but also the 3.5khz hotspot which is very difficult to damp without nerfing the dynamics or extension on either end. This headphone is truly one of the finest lines to tread when it comes to modding. The HE6SE I modded for @neogeosnk took me longer than any other headphone by like 200%. There are things I might do differently if I started from scratch with them too. This was the headphone that pushed me away from modding planars for Friends, I got so frustrated working with them even though I did see the end result as a net positive compared to stock, which felt like a huge accomplishment though the changes were still fairly subtle.

It's quite difficult to concoct a good recipe without a way to measure and many many many hours of trial and error. Generally a light touch and partial coverings are the way to go. Think about where your ear canal sits within the pads. If you want to reduce hotness and spotlighting and ringing, think about dividing the driver into quadrants and damping the bottom back quadrant with something like think woven fabric or gauze of some sort. Maybe thin strips of micropore tape. Rug liner is also a good idea, but don't use the heavy HD800 stuff.

Don't overdo damping on the back side of the driver or soundstage will suffer and you'll get some honkiness in the mids. One of the downsides of double sided planars. If you're going to damp the back I'd probably suggest leaving some portion of the driver completely open. The old 'star felt' configuration HFM used to use actually kind of made sense, though different materials would probably still work better.

You can test how acoustically impeding a filter will be by placing it over your mouth like a mask and blowing air through it. The more resistance, the more critical specific placement will be on the face of the driver, front or rear. Vice versa also true. It's like painting - always work from light to dark.

I don't have much else to add. Decide on a goal and then strategize and pick materials towards that specific end. Try rolling pads, rug liner, and EQ first. Good luck.

 

@E_Schaaf - Magic erasers! Aha! Thanks so much. Above was helpful as well.

One last question - how did you mount the wood cups? I'm looking to stick some wood cups I'm having made onto the felt / plastic area circled in red and green in the picture under #4 with either tape (will have to experiment with foam/flat tape), blutack/ white tack/ similar putty, or possibly Sugru (unfortunately sugru is hard to undo), depending on the sound results I get with further experimentation. Should cause the least amount of impedence/restriction on the magnets / drivers as there's already still material here anyways. Adding a cutout on the inside of the cup to accommodate for the cable insertion point and wires / soldering.


For others reading and wondering - I'm having cups made but they're going to be a slightly different shape than e_schaaf's if I recall the shape correctly - I think his were straight walled up with the inside edge/corner being radiused whereas I'm looking to have mine more like a volcano where the base is bigger than the top but the top is still open (still a large hole at the top, slope hole won't be as relatively small as most volcanos). I noticed that from experimenting with different materials and even my hands or random objects on the back side of the magnets that I do like a small amount of restriction and signal being bounced back in (which angled cups will provide a little of) but also like this further away than stock grills mounted on the frame will allow. This will also let me possibly lay materials on the inside edges of the cup to tweak the sound small amounts.

 

Another random update:
Should clarify that overall goal from start was not to make this headphone sound totally different (as I'd just buy a different headphone) and/or a bass monster (I'm not a bass head), but rather to refine the headphone - pull in and even out the highs a little and maintain or improve subjective quality of sound and technical minutia while retaining it's strengths and improving quality of bass (which will most likely result in a small quantity increase). I don't have 1 favorite sound signature - I want my different headphones to sound different with both their strengths and weaknesses while complementing each other.

- Still using Ether Flow Open 1.1 leather pads (no perf).
- Experimented with 4 different types of thin rug liner. Settled on 1, per E_Schaff's advice, still experimenting with varying degrees of cover per quadrant. Works very well so far - cleans up treble with minimal reduction of air, texture, and pop in the highs. As expected, in cleaning up the upper end of the spectrum, you lose some color, but it's less stabby - still experimenting to get the balance between the two right. Treble sensitive people remove less, etc.
- Take 1 sheet of Costco brand TP and split into 1 ply for least loss of treble quality. Cut hole of varying size in varying location/s to adjust for quantity of smoothing and general reduction in highs (bigger hole = more treble and less reduction in air).
- Tried about 5 other types of TP and all resulted in loss of sound quality or change sound signature in way I didn't like. Also tried about 10 different types of thin cloth-like materials including gauze, gingham, industrial cloths, physically textured cloths, etc and had loss of sound quality. Tried varies types of cotton balls, makeup pads, etc as well - messed with sound too much. Surgical mask cloth, while not perfect, seems to do OK both on the inside and outside - need to experiment more.
- Blu-tack mod for better seal is not as necessary now but still helps in pretty much the same way sealing cracks/leaks helps bass in general - about the same level of "upgrade" for me as having (thin frame) glasses on/off. Blue tack mod much more difficult to apply now due to tighter fit of driver against headphone and it is very possible to CRACK OR DAMAGE the frame of the plastic headphone frame trying to push it in with too much blu-tack. I had blue tack applied roughly paper thin. Do not use a mounting putty with directions that specify "do not knead/stretch" as it will NOT get thin enough for the driver to go in. Biggest PIA part of modding so far. Be very careful to not get blu-tack in driver when spreading this thin b/c it will get messy.
- Tried mass loading the hollow areas in the frame with blue tack and white tack so far. Not a huge difference between the two. Will make bass slam a little more but you lose some tactility (becomes more of a dead thud), and a tiny bit of both texture and heft in the bass. Lose a little color in the highs as well and a tiny bit of speed overall. While physics agrees with the following, audible difference may be placebo - but primary tones/colors in the mids seem to resonate a little more. I'm probably going to go back to 1/3 mass loaded as I like the extra color in the highs, etc.

- Will try more seriously with partial fuzzor mod, melamine (thanks once again E_Schaff), and some other potentially interesting materials on the outside of the driver next. Mixed initial results.
- Wood cups taking longer than expected but per own experimentation with similar items this is going to make a very nice difference for me - more so than many of above mods.
- Going to try sandwiching a few more different kinds of foam between retaining ring and driver as well although the stock foam has been OK so far.
- Have also experimented a bit with unconventional stuff - refraining from sharing for now in case it's stupid, results in driver damage, etc.
- Based on general differences between copper, silver, and hybrid cables I've tried before, copper is preferred here.
- Doing all tuning with Liquid Crimson as the amp with it's strong dark tilt and noticeable and still prominent full + relaxed Cavalli house sound. I realize I should be doing this with a more neutral amp but it's what I have right now that works.

 

Good stuff! Have you tried anything like these speaker cloths to help tame the upper treble?

https://www.acoustimac.com/fabric-sampler-dmd/

This was recommended to me by someone on HF a while ago and do think it reduces treble above the 7-8K range and doesn't seem to affect anything below that to my ears. Curious if anyone else has experimented with this or something similar.

 

^ I have some on the way, still in transit. Have some other materials inbound as well.

 

So most materials have arrived or been purchased but of all things the mids are too prominent now on some songs (they were generally always recessed before) and nothing I'm throwing at the headphone can fix this w/o significantly degrading sound quality / technicalities. Changing pads helped a little but not much. I find it odd that it's only on some tracks. Also per eschaff's info above, back bottom quadrant was not completely blocked and small portions of the driver were left open elsewhere (per experimenting).

If anyone would care to share, it'd be much appreciated.

-------------------------

For example, guitar and some males vocals are piercingly loud. Same song does not have the same issue with a different headphone on the same setup. On songs where I don't have issues with HE6se, the mids are not recessed with other headphones so I know it's not something in the song.

I'm also getting odd timbre in about 20% of songs. Not sure if it's just planars don't like those songs b/c the timbre was off for me with LCD3 and EFO1.1 in the past as well (oddly not Aeon Closed though).

Otherwise, modding and tuning have gone pretty well so far.

 

This is my first post on SBAF (outside of the intro post). Please correct me if I have posted in the wrong place, or stepped on the forums best practices. It's also a bit long. I feel that was necessary to get the feeling of my issue.

I just started on my headphone journey a few months ago and auditioned sundara, ath-r70x, quad era-1, lcd-x, arya and he6se. Briefly:

ath-r70x: just didn't compete on this list. Apparently I like planar.
quad era-1: fun, but the way the bass and warmth took over the sound just got old quickly.
lcd-x: better than quad, but the lcd house sound struggled in the same way as quad without EQ (didn't try to EQ it)
sundara: brilliant. The only thing I really wanted was more bass slam. This headphone is wonderful to my ears.
arya: better than sundara in many ways, but not in any way that justified the price jump to me.

and now the problem child: he6se (adorama special edition)

To me, it merged the benefits of the arya and the sundara with little to no compromise. I would call it a "meatier" version of them. Not so light and dainty as the arya but maintaining most of the best aspects that matter to me. This is on an smsl sp200/m200 stack which I felt was the *bare minimum* to make it go. (idsd micro signature didn't cut it, which I was hoping. that was naive.)

So, now I am considering building a stack that is varying degrees of dedicated to it and I would love some feedback on these options (or any other suggestions)

topping d90/a90: This would still be usable for other things. It's not clear to me that it will take advantage of the he6se (some reports put this next to v281 and speaker amps for he6se)

flux labs fcn-10: Highest power head amp available for an almost acceptable price. Like a90, should be good for everything. Cons? brand new, unknown everything. Kind of high risk here. I do like that it's one box.

yamaha a-s801: 100W stereo integrated amplifier. Costs less than the above, has speaker uses as secondary option. It is very well regarded in its price point (as far as I can tell). But, probably not great for any other headphone. And it's freaking huge. Space is a *bit* of a problem on my desk.

various schiit: There are a half dozens options here. I'm a bit overwhelmed.

make other suggestions: lower budget with minimal compromise is better.

I am torn as I was trying to do a "general" solution originally that would let me rotate headphones in and out. The he6se kind of ruined that.

What would you do? and, more importantly, *why* do you lean that direction?

Thanks so much! Been lurking here for months. I really like the straight forward advice.

 

My used Adcom GFA-535 does just fine with my he6se, It cost $100 used 10 years ago. I tried the big brother GFA-5500 and could not tell the difference so off it went. I built the speaker to headphone adapter but you can buy one, The dac does volume control and you can always use a SYS or similar for volume. It does not run hot. I set the bias and dc offset per the manual and it has been rock steady for years. I have been mulling over a Flux amp only, no combo, but I just don't need it.

 

Yeah, the reason topping was even on the list, is of I think 5 amps that I compared, the dx3 pro was the only one that worked out of the box without issue. This is not a sound quality thing, but a QC "kept shutting off, played static, whatever other problems" thing. This included the smsl stack and the idsd micro among others. Not working out of box does not impress me.

The reservation on the ragnarok is price. with multi-bit dac it's 1700 I think? My budget was originally $2k with the headphones absorbing $700 on sale. It's also has a pricey return policy.

I would assume the aegir and saga would be a dedicated he6se solution as a speaker amp? The aegir had sufficient power? I kind of assumed the people calling for 100-150+ watts are a bit nuts. These are all quite a bit less power. So I assume the power needs of he6se are quite over blown by the outside world?

I assume you do a straight to speaker adapter (not the hifiman one)? (readily available on ebay for $100 - $150 or so?)

Should I be concerned about balanced or not?

The magnius/modius was on the list. The *only* reason I didn't pull the trigger is I am not confident of how well it drives the he6se. Otherwise, they are phenomenal value. I do actually like my dx3 pro on the sundara vs the other amps. Those two just worked well together. I also tried the xduoo ta-30 which, seemed to have a slight advantage in sound quality over the smsl sp200, not enough to justify it. And it mattered more on the arya than anything else.

I am pondering and learning so much. Thank you for your input. Looking at the other options you suggested that I never considered. Will take some time to digest them.

Side note: I am an objectivist and subjectivist, so I do read ASR, but I agree with much of the bias said about them. I really just want to know that the specs roughly match what is stated on the box. for that, ASR seems fine.