Holo Audio Red

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by RestoredSparda, Jan 27, 2023.

  1. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NYC
    It's the general character of each streamer, yes, no matter what music. A friend said it well a year or so ago when he switched to Red, that it has more of an analog-like smoothness.
     
  2. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    long beach, ca
    I mean one man’s “harshness” is another man’s “drive” or “incisive” or what have you. Just depends on how it all comes together - “be a good chef” etc. I realize I’m preaching to the choir here, though.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 3
    • List
  3. Huhnkopf

    Huhnkopf Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So what's the baseline here? Stock Meanwell driven PI2AES vs Holo Red?
     
  4. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NYC
    In my case is was an AMB Labs Sigma 11 LPS in front of Pi2AES vs Holo Red.
     
  5. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rhode Island, USA
    Home Page:
    Assuming same DAC, cables, Headphone amplifier, and/or speaker amplifier, then that seems like a pretty fair comparison.

    Oh well, can't win them all!
     
  6. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    12,080
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    Correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe your magic box is a sliver more affordable, so managing to whit the differences down to minute minutiae isn't quite a solid trouncing for you :p

    Okay back to lurking this thread.
     
  7. Garns

    Garns Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,530
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Sydney, AUS
    That is part of it but, for me, not all of it. The tonal colour feels a bit more flat with the Holo, like it doesn't quite dig as deep. As I say, it might be fixable with software.
    PI2AES with a Gieseler linear power supply (local Australian brand, would be about $400US). So all up about half the cost of the Holo.
     
  8. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,325
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Texas
    I love you Michael Kelly for letting me stream content and use my phone to control it. That was HUGE and will never be forgotten.

    The time is now to evolve your offerings because everyone who is switching over to a Holo Red because of better sound and infinite rolling options to dial in the sound they want, they're all super fickle. If you can offer something better they will drop the Red like a hot potato and immediately order your new thing. Most of us would prefer to give money to USA jobs not China jobs.

    So dude, research and develop, give us something to buy that will be better and we will buy it, I promise! We totally want to support you but if something else sounds better and doesn't cost crazy amounts we'll go with that.

    We're trying to help you, you just have to help us too.
     
    • Epic Epic x 6
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  9. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Likes Received:
    1,914
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NH
    I still use OG PI2AES with noise nuke. Noise nuke really changed the PI2AES. I see a noise nuke implementation was put into the newer mercury ? Another issue is constant different revs/versions being released. Most of it is because of parts /components Merry go round we are all on because of availability/stock issues.
     
  10. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rhode Island, USA
    Home Page:
    sadly, there isn't a whole lot that can be done with the raspberry pi I2S interface. It can't be made faster, and although we could put in significantly more expensive clocks, the difference would be very very small.

    right now, I am focusing on bringing the cost of the board back down to where it was in the beginning, before all of the supply chain snafus.

    We are also looking at integrating a good, not necessarily fantastic, DAC onto the board. We've already done prototypes and the numbers give us about -106dB THD. Not earth shattering as a number, but it is a pretty low distortion and mostly dominated by second order harmonics. The DAC chip itself is the ESS ES9033. So essentially, we're hoping to up the value, even if we can't dramatically change the sound.
     
    • heart heart x 7
    • Like Like x 3
    • Miss Information Miss Information x 1
    • List
  11. JK47

    JK47 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2022
    Likes Received:
    2,735
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SoCal Surf City USA
    Maybe do a special limited edition micro batch of Pi2AES “ORFAS EDITION” with all the finest clocks, connectors, solder, and wires!! No holds barred!!!
     
  12. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NYC
    Yeah, I don’t think people moving on to Holo Reds are looking for an integrated DAC. A friend was recently talking about how the market clearly has a desire for supporting higher sample rates and more serious power regulation.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  13. joch

    joch Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,135
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    the other side of the big ocean
    Maybe a Pi2 AES with integrated Noise Nuke?

    Or a Pi2 version of the USBridge…I’m finding that I’m enjoying lately the USB input Unison.
     
  14. pure5152

    pure5152 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southern California
    100% agree that going for value is a great approach here. Kinda like schiit's approach: not necessarily the best cost-no-object possible, but provide some of the best value possible.

    FWIW I loved the OG pi2aes and still see it as the gold standard for value in a streamer. Really made me realize how good streamers could be and definitely deserved the golden schlong it won. If it could be brought back to the old v1.0 price/deal that would be amazing!
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 8
    • List
  15. Qstik

    Qstik Acquaintance

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    For a long time I was very happy with my EtherRegen and Pi2AES P3, particularly with the EtherRegen being externally clocked with an AfterDark Emperor Double Crown and the Pi2AES being powered by a Ferrum Hypsos HPS @30v. However, I upgraded my Metrum Onyx R2R DAC to a Gustard R26 R2R DAC after I was impressed by the many the glowing online reviews. I thought that there was a marginal gain in sound quality. It wasn't until I moved my 10MHz external clock over to the Gustard R26 that things really improved - much more tonal quality and smoothness, much larger soundstage. The R26 was transformed! Several months later I began to believe that my beloved Pi2AES "might" now be the limiting factor in my audio chain. So I took the extreme step of replacing it with a Holo Audio Red. The HoloOS in the Red was a big step up for me in terms of reliability compared to Volumio and Spotify Connect with my Pi2AES. Yes, I tried other options to Volumio, but was never satisfied with reliability and stability. I'm using the built-in Spotify Connect with my Holo Red and I can stream I2S all day long to my R26 without a drop-out or disconnect. At this point, I am very happy with the overall smoothness, articulation, tonality, reverberation fidelity, and "as if you are there" realism of my system that I don't know what else I need to improve. It's a strange feeling that I should just leave well enough alone - but it's hard... I might have to experiment with other firmware in my Holo Red to satisfy my audio addiction - maybe an EtherRegen II when it comes out.
     
  16. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,373
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Suburban DC
    Serious question, do you use a lossless source? That is a lot of gear to be comparing using a lossy source.
     
  17. Qstik

    Qstik Acquaintance

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Lossy - Spotify Ogg Vorbis roughly equivalent to 320 kbps. To my ears it sounds very comparable to lossless FLAC and DSD tracks which I also listen to as streamed from my NAS using UPNP - YMMV. I usually opt for the convenience of Spotify.. They also do a decent job of curating music I like.
     
    • Respectfully Disagree Respectfully Disagree x 1
    • List
  18. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,373
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Suburban DC
    Is this really true? I think @Erroneous point is that a product like Holo Red takes a different approach and sounds not just different but better. I would think that you have the skillz to come up with something better than Holo Red for about the same price. Pi2AES was a game changer for me and many in this community. I think many here are saying that your efforts would be best put towards innovation. We don’t want AIO DAC streamers, we want better streamers. Better clocks, better PS, & maybe USB out for those who want that.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 5
    • Like Like x 4
    • List
  19. Qstik

    Qstik Acquaintance

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    I don't listen to much electronic music. Usually acoustic - piano, voice, violin, guitar, trumpet, clarinet, oboe, etc. Classical and folk. Occasional raggae and country.
     
  20. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    A Cell
    I understood that Michael wants to stay within the raspberry universe and he think there is only so much you can do (which will take you quite some distance).
    The Red is BOM wise in a whole different ballpark. The question here, I guess, is not can Michael come up with something similar or better but does it fit into his business case. Like we all I guess he needs to pay his bills. The guys who live the Olympic motto in audio will always move on to the next better thing. Might just be that the better business case is cater for the good enough is good enough people.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List

Share This Page