Lake People G111 - Impressions and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Sep 26, 2021.

  1. Wilewarer

    Wilewarer Rando

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    The hundred dollar amps aren't less compromised, though, are they? It's more that when someone wants to upgrade from there, they need to really grapple with the idea of everything being some sort of compromise, but if they haven't heard enough other things, it's hard to even know what you -can- compromise on. That's what I'm dealing with, at least.

    I was looking into this one, and I might've bought it, except that most of the impressions I saw of it anywhere seemed to not really describe anything the sound did right consistently, which is always a bit worrying. They also didn't mention anything that would've made me expect extremely messed up highs. Or extremely messed up lows. Or staging that I'm reading as only moderately less messed up than an Atom. There's probably a lesson in here somewhere. Thanks for the review, glad I read it so I can think about buying other things instead.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Super Friend

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    Thanks for being a good sport. I think you get where I am coming from - that my tone is more one of amusement rather than serious condemnation.
     
  3. peef

    peef Friend

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    I agree, it doesn't quite look like oscillation. I'm spotting two unusual phenomena here-- the increasing odd (and as frequency increases) even harmonics, and the broad, low amplitude peak around 55kHz. Oscillation is not typically correlated to the test frequency, so measuring the amp with no test signal might help investigate it. A "control" measurement of sorts. My experience is that anything below 100kHz is usually a switcher in the same room or on the same circuit somehow coupling to my measurement rig, especially the the device uses a toroid for power, as toroids have a very wide bandwidth.

    I think this hints to the amp running out of gain to burn off as feedback, as frequency increases. Particularly since second harmonic picks up past the audio band. The G109 uses NE5532s with what looks like ceramic caps for compensation; I wouldn't be surprised to see this improve if some of these were yanked out.
     
  4. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    I think a lot has to do with Head-Fi inertia. Several years ago, someone came out like it was some major secret that had finally been discovered like an archeological dig in Egypt and said Lake People (and Violectric) made the best amps evah! with TOOBZ SOUND. It basically took off like a prairie wild fire. Suddenly everyone was getting one for their HD 800 or DT 880. I almost drank the Kool Aid myself before reading more grounded opinions elsewhere.

    Edit:

    It took some digging, but I found an old post that references the original post (since been deleted) that started the whole Lake People wildfire.

    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lake-people-g100-head-amp-wins-competition-against.460549/
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  5. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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  6. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    The Violectric V200 worked well for the HD800. It was a warm, fast sounding amp that smoothed/ filled out the HD800. With the HD650 it was way too much. So yeah. It definately had a flavour.
     
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  7. TamHo

    TamHo Rando

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    Hi purr1n,
    I think you listened to the Schiit Asgard 1. What do you think about it in term of soundstage capability? This amp has a very open sounding to my ears. Tks
     
  8. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    Asgard 3, was a bit of a disappointment too me. I preferred the IFI Zen Can to it. That said, the Asgard 3 did headstage depth better.
     
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  9. señorhifi

    señorhifi Friend

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    I think this amp needs more exposure in general. Overall, people just get the iFi Zen Dac and use the build-in amp, forgetting about this one. Here, Marv had the Signature version but didn't comment much on sound as his had a defect (he couldn't turn the "HD6XX EQ" mode off).

    Now that I tried a bit more amps, I can say with more confidence that this thing is pretty darn nice. The price at 180€-200€ in EU, prime shipped within 12-24h, makes it really attractive. This is now my go to recommendation for newcomers.

    It lacks headstage width (better than Magni3 though), but I loved that well defined center image it presented, which had depth to it. It sounded compact, but 3D. Detail retrieval is alright, I would say a bit behind THX AAA stuff, but better than Magni3. There are no annoyances that I could hear, like the glare in the FiiO K5 amp. It was a bit warm, but less so than Magni3, which sounded a bit muddy compared to this one.

    The balanced power output is great at over 0.7W into 300Ohms. Impressive!

    EDIT: no clue where I got the 0.7W into 300Ohms from, but I remember seeing it on the specs sheet? It actually says "15.1V/385 mW (@ 600 Ohm)". That's really impressive for less than 200€ in EU.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  10. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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  11. Jerseysam

    Jerseysam Rando

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    Not to speak for the poster, but I think he was talking about the Magnius being popular. ;) He was comparing the $200 price-point with "odd sonics" vs. $550 for the G111.

    The chatter from 2009/2010 is for sure an interesting read; though I don't think it's driving much interest to the G111 these days. The only "review" I found before buying was the one from Wave Theory that Jay posted below you. I found the feedback on Hi-Fi after I purchased, and Tyll H. had the G109 on his old "Wall of Fame" for Inner Fidelity (Wayback archive). That's all I ever found on the amp. I'm surprised the G111/forebearers were ever compared to a warm/tube sound!
     
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  12. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE Free Agent

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    There are two things that are interesting with this amplifier: measurements of ultrasonic noise & odd/increasing higher order harmonic distortion.

    1. I'll try to get some references but I was speaking with someone who shared that ultrasonic high frequencies can affect the cilia in our ears that perceive low frequencies. Counter-intuitive...but ultrasonic HF may cause LF distortion?

    2. Odd + higher order distortion + especially increasing (dissonant) may be more noticeable than even-order harmonic distortion that is decreasing (consonant). Psychoacoustic filters (due to adaptive human survival response) may accentuate certain sounds while filtering out others.

    If these things are correct and applicable to headphones and amplifiers, could explain the subjective impressions.
     
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  13. Jay

    Jay Facebook Friend

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    Ha, yes, probably so. Sometimes my brain doesn't work so well and I think I have mad cow or something.

    I was a bit confused and I apologize for shitposting as what I brought up wasn't too germane to the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  14. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Please do provide references if possible. I would appreciate opportunity to learn more.
     
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  15. purr1n

    purr1n Super Friend

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    Let's continue to measure and get more data points. I'm addicted to fun and learning! ;)

    There is another one I've heard which is related to "crap factor": That second and third harmonics are harder to perceive or less deleterious to "good sound". Presumably because they exist more in nature.
     
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  16. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    For the GONAD report why did you pick 37 Hz and 9.3 KHz? If that is in a post somewhere feel free to point me at that post.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Super Friend

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    The link to HF was interesting for one particular facet:

    "neutral" + "HD800/DT880"
    It's like what I said above, I don't want an amp that turns an HD800 into an Audeze (exaggeration), I'd rather get an Audeze. I don't mind amps which impart some tonal color or take the edge off, but this is too much. Too heavy handed. There was a definite need for amps like the G100 and V200 (and Asgard 1) in 2010. However, it's 2021.

    Like Amir, I pulled it outta my ass. Unlike Amir, I put in some thought.

    37Hz:
    • Not a multiple of 50 or 60. To avoid pollution from AC mains hum.
    • Sufficiently low frequency, but also not too low as to not be reasonably well reproduced by dynamic headphones and most larger speakers.
    • It's the frequency of the D# bass drop in Daft Punk's Doin' it Right.
    9.3k:
    • Not a multiple of 44.1k, 48k, 88.2k, or 96k.
    • Below 1/2 of 20kHz so second harmonic remains in audio band.
    • x2 of 9.3kHz is 18.6kHz, just under 20kHz, which stands a good chance of being heard by younger ears.
    • Mid-treble peaks around 9.3kHz are not uncommon in many headphones and most certainly are audible, except if you are Jude and your GRAS FR says there is a null there, which is really a peak on the CSD.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  18. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    I was just re-watching the video of Tyll and Mike at the CanJam. Are we close yet?
     
  19. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE Free Agent

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    Hi Bob! Here is a paper- we find dissonant intervals unpleasant as compared to consonant...
    "when two tones of the dissonant interval were presented to the same ear, the interval was judged more
    unpleasant."

    Also this reference primarily dives into our non-linear auditory systems perceiving dissonants and consonants discretely.

    We had discussed a few different things, I’ll need to post some more references.
     

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  20. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    what are the threshold values for this system?
    [​IMG]
     

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