Massdrop: Search Your Feelings

I think you guys are being a bit naive when it comes to how pushy massdrop can be. They have a lot more money and pull than you guys recognize.

Do you really think Craig benefits from his company name on a laconic amp sold by massdrop? He is going to have such a headache from people calling him about hum and blown amps. And who knows what kind of contract they gave him to sign, it isn't unlikely that massdrop now owns the zdt name and design.

From my experience talking to people who have worked with massdrop, massdrop only care about making money even if it means cutting corners.
They are the last person I want in charge of manufacturing. They used crappy parts even after being warned by IC in their $200 keyboards, what is to stop them form doing the same to their amps. This is not unsubstantiated, do the research yourselves.

And another thing, for the amount of reviews and product announces sbaf does for Massdrop we get very little back. When is the last time you
guys saw an amp loaner unit from them? When is the last time @CEE TEE or @Will showed up here to engage with this community that they are getting
so much from. I would feel a lot better if I felt there was an even exchange and that our community was being looked after.

And isn't it a bit suspicious that the people who got a zdt jr to review had already written glowing reviews of the nbm. Am I the only one noticing this stuff?

 

Wow, you really know a lot about Craig and his motivations AND the contract he signed. You must know Craig or be some sort of insider.

If not, you should really stop talking at this point.

 

The best business operators tend to be pushy. Ever met anyone who worked in sales?

I dunno, did he sign a contract allowing them to? Did Massdrop point a gun to his head and tell him to sign a piece of paper? Are you trying to tell us that Craig is not of sound mind to enter into a binding contract?

The evil capitalist at work my friends!

Are you saying we should get kickbacks? Perhaps we could have a system where Marv could collect checks for exposure of Massdrop products. Hmm who does that remind me of....

Isn't it pretty much the same amp with the same sound? this just in..... fans of Big Mac are going crazy for the Royale with Cheese!

 

Streamlining production and maximising profits is basic business (cutting corners, if you will, though not to the extent that quality is sacrificed). To my knowledge, none of the crap I've gotten off Massdrop has ever crossed that line. Also, and this has been so oft repeated that it's basically tattooed on the inside of my dura mater now, but some of the more vocal members here have similar sonic preferences— were I smart enough to make DACs, I wouldn't send someone who hates R2R designs a Chord Hugo or whatever. Yes, getting more ears on this would be great (especially ears that don't much care for the NBM), but then you'd basically get the exact same shite, only less ass-kissy and more "f**k off with this".

For what it's worth, I feel the members here have integrity, if not delicadeza. Something about dealing with bull honkey on a regular basis probably makes for short fuses, meh. Still, if the amp does end up sucking sphincter then people'll know not to trust Marv, Hands, et al— given the amount of good will they've already accrued, I rather doubt that they'd just fart it all away on promoting a deal like the ZDT.

Also, friend caved and is getting one, same friend that lent me the HD650 and almost the HD800. I know he doesn't much care for the idea of tubes (Philippine climate and all that). Tempted to give in, but money, gah. I also know that said friends lurks SBAF, so: if you're reading this I'd be perfectly happy to take the thing off your hands once you get bored with it; ignore what people say about how the NBM plays nice with the HD800 ))

This is a very enjoyable thread. I do hope more people chime in with their personal experiences with Massdrop, or for those so inclined, their personal experiences in manufacturing, distribution, and all that fun jazz. Super educational, good distraction from schoolwork. I do agree a more neutral renaming from "Evil Massdrop" thread is in order, though.

 

You are missing the point @OJpos. Why did massdrop only give the amp to people who had already made reviews about it. What is the point of that? Wouldn't it be better to get new perspective. I am not asking for kickbacks but loaner units and community participation. Loaners would give us more impressions to go off of when buying products from them and be good for our community.

Schiit has given this community a lot, and not just donations. There have made many contributions without expectations or strings attached and they maintain a regular presence on here. Massdrop hasn't done anything for us. I expect them to give back a little more.

Also tragedy of the commons refers to any shared resource not just public goods. Doesnt mean I used it right though. If you wanna talk about that pm though since it has no place here.

 

You left out the "Indemnities" and the broad license granted to any user content submitted through the site. You also appear not to be aware that those, and the provisions you quoted, are standard in any well-written TOS. Massdrop's TOS is not nearly as "grimy" as what I typically draft because it omits state-specific liability limitations, broad liability limitations, jury trial waivers, and arbitration procedures.

As @OJpos pointed out eloquently above, you also appear to be ignorant about many other topics, particularly related to contract and IP law.

All that said, you raise some potentially good points about hidden agendas. I have faith in @Marvey's and @Hands' transparency, so let's just ask: do either of you, any other pre-release reviewer on SBAF, or Craig / Eddie Current get (1) kickbacks of any kind for your reviews of Massdrop products or (2) any royalties on or shares in profits of any sales of any items sold on Massdrop, including without limitation the ZDT Jr.?

 

FWIW, Eddie Current amps are not cheap, and most people who are in a position to buy one know that they've a reputation for their products being crafted with care; people whore likely to be interested in this amp, such as myself, are usually of less wealthy stock, and consider getting an EC amp as a pipe dream. Shit, I wanna buy a Paradox to support a cool dude but I'm strapped. Whatever poor quality/performance on the ZDT does for brand rep (and we still don't know that it'll suck despite the low price), I rather doubt it'll mean much to Mr. Uthus's target audience.

Also, about two minutes of Googling inform you that this is technically an NBM and not to bother EC about repairs and all that. Stamp of approval and minor cosmetic revamping is the extent of Mr. Uthus's involvement with this amp, I believe? Still, yeah, I think we can all agree that the branding stumps a lot of people on here, since the NBM's already got a lot of people singing its praises etc (insert stuff repeated ad nauseam).

 

Got it. Yea I don't know anything about contract and IP Law. But I never suggested anyone gets kickbacks.

They do the reviews because it is good for the forum and because they probably get asked to by massdrop.
People come here to view the press releases. But massdrop benefits from this a lot more than we do.
And I think they should be more generous with loaners and community participation.

Fear of missing out can only drive them so far, community outreach and participation can take them a lot
further in my opinion. And I really am only arguing for the good of our community.

 

The point is for people to attest to their product. Naturally I would want people who were familiar with the previous version of the product to be able to let other people know that the new thingy is equivalent.

Loaner tours take forever and are generally a PITA. Much preferable for an enterprise like Massdrop to give it to dedicated reviewers who they know are experienced and trusted within the given community.

So yes, the purpose of allowing reviewers to get hands on the product before release is to promote it. It is self-serving as you say, I can concede this happily. At base level we need to be able to trust the reviewer in question. If you don't trust @Hands or @Marvey because of their years of listening to HD650 and other warm-fellow audio equipment then come out and say it. Some of us might even agree!

Ok, which "shared resource" is being abused here? Rewording and semantics won't save you here comrade.

 

edited to remove quote as requested below...

It's evident to me that your opinions are honest but your beliefs are so strong that you have questioned the naivete of those that don't share your opinion. Did you ever think that it could just be that they have a different frame of reference? Furthermore, this is a lively discussion and all good given the context; but how do you think Craig would feel with the statement I quoted above?

 

@OJpos I asked you to message me if you wanted to discuss that. I would argue the shared resource is the health of the land, or in this case the health of the niche headphone/amp market/sector. Does that fit the bill? if not message and we can discuss later.

@GTABeancounter You are right, point taken. I took it down, but accept that I am not pulling stuff form nowhere and that I know something about this. Please take it down from your link as well.

I have to get to work guys. Please discuss the rest of this on your own.

 

That is what I am talking about! Id like to hear reviews from more people, not just the same 3 or 4 people on everything.

 

Can it be more people and the same 3 or 4? I personally need people with tons of gear exposure, and I need to get a feel of the perspective of the reviewer...

I sure hope nobody makes a decision based on someone you don't have a vibe on their likes/dislikes. Geeze, I sure hope nobody makes a decision based on me.

 

In fairness to @SteelCannon I'm pretty sure he's referring to the general health of the headphone hobby. Or the wealth available within the headphone market. And while that's something of a stretch, the general reasoning behind the Tragedy of the Commons can still be applied here. More broadly, Steel's point is that unregulated actors, particularly large companies, are more than capable of ruining an industry/market for everyone when they act out of pure self-interest and aren't held in check by the community.

Whilst I don't necessary agree with everything Steel says about Massdrop, he does have a point. And healthy skepticism about the actions of companies like Massdrop is definitely a good thing. You can't just jump in and yell 'lol this is just capitalism, Walmart/Massdrop are the real victims'. That's the same sort of ridiculous reasoning that ends up blaming poor people for being poor.

 

The core point seems to suggest that Massdrop is the online Walmart and a bunch of the reviewers are friends with Massdrop and pump their tires, all as friends IRL doing each other favours.

Who knows, who cares.