Merv's Politically Incorrect Audio Blog

Discussion in 'SBAF Blogs' started by purr1n, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    If this hypothetical tyrant/dictator has the support of the military, there is not much of anything regular citizens would be able to do about it. It seems to me that with what the modern military has at its disposal any insurrection would be put down swiftly and with catastrophic loss of life. I'm sure you could come up with an alternative scenario where a small group of citizens with their ARs are able to resist, but it's not credible.

    People have lots of reasons to own guns: they hunt with them, they want one for home defense, they are into target shooting, they are planning to kill people with them, holding a gun makes them feel strong and they wish they could fuck their gun. All of these are more plausible than owning a gun to resist the state.
     
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  2. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    I have to disagree with you here. I'll never understand the argument that "well they have tanks/drones/helicopters so we can't win." The military is comprised of citizens the same as you and me. They may find it easier to stomach suppressing the population if they have no real means to resist, but the thought of killing millions of their fellow citizens would cause a vast majority of the military to say fuck this.

    But it will never come to this because the govt will slowly and systematically remove our ability to resist before they try anything too crazy.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The Kurds have been able to hold out against the armies of both Turkey and Iraq for ages. Natives in Afghanistan have been holding out against modern militaries from two superpowers for decades. The US military couldn't do shit to the populace of Vietnam.

    Likewise, the peaceloving theocratic peoples of Tibet got crushed by their neighbor in days. And Hong Kongers will eventually be borged by Beijing.

    Hearts and minds alone can only resist so far. Hearts and minds and guns can go up against high-tech assassination drones, tanks, aerial gunships, and carpet bombing. History has shown this time and time again.

    --

    I don't think you understand gun owners. The phallic toy thing you cite is stereotypical of this misunderstanding. Sure there are some, but it's the same thing with cars and audio gear. Many gun owners are into guns for reasons very similar to why people here are into audio gear. They are fun gizmos.

    Personally, I like to know that politicians can't always rest easy in their homes. (I am utterly disgusted by the political machine in my state - I knew long ago that Gavin Newsom would be governor). When people have had enough and decide to burn down the capital buildings in Sacramento, I will be there.

    Or if people lack the guts, turn in their guns, and bend over to accept yet another 12 cent gas hike, I'll move out. This is more likely the case.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  4. RobS

    RobS The Friend formerly known as treboR

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    Lol purr1n will be moving to Montana!

    PS I'd rather live in Saudi Arabia than "free Tibet"
     
  5. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    True. I was ignoring many of these obvious examples.

    I would like to believe this. But there are lots of historical examples (insert examples here @Psalmanazar) of the military doing what they are told and killing their fellow citizens. The trick is to "other" the enemy enough.

    This is also what I'm getting at when I say that the "resist the state" reason is more fantasy than reality.

    I would never keep a gun in my house myself, but I've heard from enough gun owners over the years to have an ok understanding of what they value. I was not trying to minimize the hunting, defense, sporting segments of the population. I totally get this and say to each their own. I know the fetishist population is small.

    The difference with audio: in America, we are taught from a very young age to worship guns. Probably with cars also, but to a lesser degree. Not so much with audio.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Already happening in the most fascist (or socialist - same thing really) of states.

    The issue here really isn't about guns. The argument goes along with universal health care, free tuition, etc.

    It's about creating a better society, freer from suffering. I just don't think this is possible existing as a human being. I say this from a religious point of view. The very definition of being human means that one will suffer. If not from violence or starvation, from disease, from old age, or from social media induced suicide. Maybe even from lightning or an active shooter attack.

    Buddha was on board with this. So was Jesus Christ. The prostrations throughout the day in Islam are supposed to remind us that we and our problems (even if pancreatic cancer) are so little and petty when it comes to the grand scheme of things.

    It just seems that every time we squeeze so hard to create a more utopian world, we end up becoming less human or we end up creating another problem. Like squeezing one end of a balloon, the other end is only going to bulge.

    I recall a discussion with my mother-in-law regarding health care. She cited a hypothetical case where if I got cancer.

    I'd said that I couldn't afford it, I let myself die. That it wouldn't be unfair for me to burden society and have other taxpayers cough up millions to give me a few more years. She retorted that wouldn't be true if it happened to one of my kids.

    I stayed silent. No doubt she didn't understand my conviction (my willingness to let even my kids die if the cost were too high) and it would be impossible to convince her otherwise. My observation is that people in rich industrialized countries have forgotten what it really means to be a human being. The struggle, the pain, the loss, all that is supposed to be normal.

    ---

    If we want to get serious on gun violence: one strike law. Use a gun in any crime = jail forever. No second chance. Of course there will be consequences with such a one strike law.

    California three strikes did wonders, but the other end of the balloon got squeezed: keeping prisoners is expensive, and people who could be rehabilitated never got a second, I mean fourth chance. Three strikes has been relaxed, with a corresponding minor uptick in violent crime.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  7. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    I do not see a modern tyrant as a person mastering all the resources of the state to suppress the dissent, I am more interested in examining a realistic situation when individual ownership of guns may play a decisive role. And here it is,
    one of the best definitions of totalitarianism I have ever seen:
    Totalitarian state is less of a problem, what I am afraid of is a totalitarian society acting though ever growing state bureaucracy. But what bureaucrats never ever do is risking their own lives, or even their pension plans.
    Here is where guns in the hands of private citizens willing to defend themselves and their families may play a decisive role.

    Never thought about karma as having both magnitude and directions, that what vector means.
    That's amazing, you cannot get this kind of intellectual and mental jolt on any other audio forum.
     
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  8. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Hey, anarchy works.

    Just look at Italy, our government is so ineffective we've basically done everything ourselves for 40 years and it's not working noticeably worse than most of the world :rolleyes:
    |\/|
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Yup, applies to nations and peoples. Tendencies, outlooks, and from that likely outcomes. Karma is ultimately take a neutral stance, there's no good or evil. It's really just one action begets another action. Not that complex really.

    Germans have a karma. They are really good at organizing and creating well oiled machines. The fact that they dominate European monetary policy and have developed an export market for automobiles, the higher end models powered by forced induction which requires precision parts - this after having all their big cities reduced to rubble by the Russians and the English in WWII - is an indicator of the magnitude of this German karmic vector. I always make a joke that Germany made a deal with France so they could effectively rule Europe: they allowed the French to keep speaking French and went along with French being the international language of diplomacy thing. Germans don't care. Their pragmatism tells them this: we will just learn another language.

    Look at the Kurds. Their fortunes have waxed and waned throughout history. But being in the middle of it all geographically has made them robust and also quite reliable shit-kickers when push comes to shove. Their Islam is nothing at all like the Wahhabi or Taliban brand of it. It's not so surprising to learn that Saladin was a Kurd. And by historical writings, it would appear that he more closely adhered to a code of chivalry than any of his Crusader counterparts did. Heck, I think even the Shia thought Saladin was a cool dude despite him being a Sunni. This karmic vendor has stood to this day. These are the most reliable dudes you want to ally with if you need to put a fire out in that region.

    China is interesting. They are trying to escape their karmic vector of being fucked with by foreign nations, whether they be Mongolians or Western powers. And they are still trying to annex their neighbors. The problem is that India is too big, and the Vietnamese and Koreans are way better shit-kickers. Tibet doesn't count because went retarded and decided to stay in the stone age because of their theocratic government (how's that for karma, one action begetting another action). Unbeknownst to most Westerners, the Communist party actually did a great deal to unify and centralize control of China in the 20th century. The Mandarin language used across all of China is a fairly recent phenomenon. So in that sense what the Communists did isn't all that different from the conclusion of the Three Kingdoms era. China karmic vector is to always vacillate up and down, inward and outward. The big question is do they have the strength to keep China in once piece and set that as its new karmic vector, or will it fall back into effectively separate autonomous regions with little central control. Hopefully this might give perspective on the HK issue.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  10. crenca

    crenca Almost "Made"

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    The modern progressive (not just in a political sense) mind believes (with a strong religious fervor) in progress and a technological/political/moral "better future". The modern mind believes in utopia of one sort or another, and will pummel you if you dare to question it. Most of us who do - who are not true believers - worry about an Orwellian 1984 sort of utopia. However I think it is rather obvious that what is being pushed (at least in our western "democracies") is a Huxley-ian Brave New World utopia.
     
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  11. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    That utopian shit has already been tried. It's not just in books. The difference is that it used to be industrial instead of technological, but really the same difference.

    All the below happened started with the best of intentions. To create an egalitarian world where suffering of the masses would be lessened.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

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    The problem is Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism leave open options for violence. All religions do. Humans are Barbarian apes.

    The Crusaders loved the Bible verse where Jesus takes out the sword and says that Caesar may hurt you now but his dad (aka him, maybe) will hurt you forever. The whole last part of the Bible with people crushed in wine presses, lakes of molten glass, and hellfire is holy shit. Much of the First Crusade army wanted to put a Christian king in Jerusalem for the Antichrist to kill so Jesus would come back faster. If Jesus said he would murder the shit out of all the unbelievers then, fuck they were just doing his job for him. Kill them and eat them? Why the hell not?

    The part of the Koran that says it is justifiable homicide to kill someone if they try to burn down a mosque with innocent people inside has been used to justify tons of shit. Let’s not even go there.

    Then you have Buddhism, which you think would be anti violent but most of that granola shit that turns out mostly to be what you think it is: dumb white hippie granola garbage like the dipshit flower child that wrote Zen at War who was mad at the tenets the native worshippers of his own religion followed. Ashoka, Sri Lanka, and the Samurai. Hell yes they’ll gladly kill you to make you stop worshiping devils. It’s for your own karmic benefit. All of those pagodas in Japan full of human trophies taken from Koreans during the Middle Ages. Holy shit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Indeed, I recall having conversations with such people back when "Free Tibet" bumper stickers were in vogue: oh those peace loving nice holy people living in Shangri-la.

    I'm thinking yeah right. There's so many things wrong with a theocracy revolving around a reincarnated chosen one, where an entire class of people, not insignificant in numbers, go around being useless holy men (all men), to be fed, clothed and housed by the remainder of the population, because you know, holy men aren't supposed to do anything but beg and live off of others. I've heard first hand accounts of abuse. This kind of bad behavior by men in robes isn't just limited to the Catholic Church.

    What China did was wrong, but the Tibetan rulers did it to themselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  14. RobS

    RobS The Friend formerly known as treboR

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    The Dalai Lama is a CIA asset who wants his oppressive feudal state back.
     
  15. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Yes they are, religion or not. And the state is justified to use extreme violence to contain inevitable outbursts of aggression within a society. That does not eliminate the need for guns in self defense, and for protection against oppressive acts of the state.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    LOL. What's sad is that the Tibetans at once point had an empire which included big chunks of what is modern day China. They had their warlord phase with competing schools of Buddhism where the Gelugpa, the "yellow hats", with their Dalai Lama deal, eventually won out. Over time, that went stale, and this is what we have today. The various Tibetan Buddhist schools (and not all are monastic) are still around, and not all them particularly like the Gelugpas, though I'm sure all are in the favor of getting Beijing out of Tibet.

    It will be interesting to see if China can hold on to Tibet. History says otherwise with the Mongols and Chinese (Qing) before the Commies. Sure Beijing is bringing Han Chinese in to intermarry with the locals, attempting to borg them into being Chinese; but probably what will happen is the Han Chinese will become Tibetans - integrating and identifying more with the local cultures than with China.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  17. james444

    james444 Mad IEM modding wizard level 99

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    This reminds me of one of my favorite TED Talks. ;)

     
  18. fp627

    fp627 Friend

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    Strongly disagree. See "War on Terror", "ISIS", Arab Spring, and many other events since everything went stupid after 9/11. Or even American Revolution (hence the 3% badges). Afghanistan is a perfect example. We have every modern machine and many more we don't even know of etc. (classified stuff lets say). They have a few smart guys with a will to fight + money and a bunch of guys with maybe a will to fight, maybe a < grade 5 education / probably still illiterate, no money, no resources, etc. More terrorists than ever today. American Revolution was a small bunch of educated guys in a big backwater with support of about 3% of the population defeating the greatest military force in all of known to man up to that point in time. You could say England was divided in managing it's world empire, but point is, the backwater colonists known still won by resisting.

    That and other reasons mentioned by others here. Which leads me back to my original question - if it's a fantasy to resist with force, how else would you resist. Or would you just keel over (hypothetically)? Also, what if oppression wasn't just a governmental one? Let's say you were a black slave in south America 200-400 years ago (where many more of the slaves met horrible ends than ones in the US) or a white man (or child) in Rhodesia after the collapse of white government but you couldn't leave?

    I would agree with you in the sense that it would be a fantasy for some as many will die if this we did have to use force to resist. That or someone wants to nuke the entire US into oblivion just to say they won... except I can't imagine anyone wanting to be king of gamma ray mountain at that point. Note that I don't say or imply force and small arms is the best or only way to do it, just that it is a way that it has historically happened.


    As someone who has been on the wrong side of the above equation, I felt the same. And I would say the same should apply to 99.99+% of people. The exceptions being certain people that are the glues of a society. In which case it probably wouldn't matter anyways as their people would probably step in to keep things together.

    Completely agree with observation as well although I dare say that even a lot of domestic travel in America and a decent understanding of math would provide enough info to lead one to the same conclusion. Less travel required if going to other countries, especially populous places such as China or India. There are simply too many people in the world for utopia without struggle and pain to be real.

    Yes, but I would still say in all my observation of people that I haven't seen a single society in human history that enjoys oppression. Nor have I see one that hasn't tried to rise up against tyranny (not just a governmental one) eventually.

    Loved it when they were on the giving end... ex: I don't think most Tibetians are happy with their political position today.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019

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