Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    If they're anything like the BM15 with less upper mid suckout, then they're gonna be KILLER! BM15 is killer but the BM6a are better nearfields and working monitors.
     
  2. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    I just bought my own pair of KRK V6S4. They kick ass and have no upper mid scoop like the Dynaudios or extreme boxiness like Neumanns. The mids are present and awesome. Bass doesn't extend super far but they're not broken in yet. Yes they hiss but it's very soft and I don't care. The V8 get louder and go lower but are too big for 1m away nearfield use and have a worse midrange. SBAF might like em better because the V6 is a serious tool like the old passive KRKs. It's more in the line of my taste like Yamaha and ATC than the more hi-fi JBLs and dark Questeds favored around these parts. Anyway, death to FOCAL!!!!!!
     
  3. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    I really have fond memories of my Focal solo6. I thought they sounded rich and not harsh at all. But when I hear focal's hifi range. Man, those are quite bright. Is the krk dry, Like most studio monitors I heard?

    And @Metro any updates on how the buchardt is after more burn in?
     
  4. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    All usable monitors and good speakers will be dry. The cabs won’t resonate all over like a Harbeth. There are some that are warm like Dynaudio and some dark like Quested and Kali but they are not wet. The KRK Rokits have a warmbutt port bleeding into the mids but they are still much drier than Harbeths. Expensive KRKs never had that. They are closer to warmer Yamahas with a very minor port boost at 60hz or so to ensure the bigger ones can hit 40hz.
     
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  5. RobS

    RobS treboR (Psalmanazar Groupie)

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    Unless you are watching movies, external subs suck.

    The biggest problem listening to music with external subs is they can obfuscate, more than they will reveal, if not integrated properly.

    It's better to have a sub in the speaker which allows for the manufacturer to tune the integrated crossover and have proper LF phase alignment. With an external, you have to use your ears and/or do some room measurements to try to get proper placement, levelling and crossover.
     
  6. RobS

    RobS treboR (Psalmanazar Groupie)

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    Monitor wise: JBL 305s and had the KRK V8S4s briefly before I got a fantastic deal on these Opals.

    Speakers it all varies. Nothing high end though.

    But yeah besides the Convert-2/RedNet, the Opals are one of the best audio purchases I've made.

    Crystal clarity and microscopic when it comes to detail. The only problem with how resolving these monitors are is they do reveal and magnify the weaknesses of whatever converter is used, and its obvious the Convert-2 is weak at microdynamics and plankton. Sometimes I think the Convert-2 is just a bit too squeaky clean depending on what I'm playing back. Like for lo-fi recordings, I want a more lo-fi dirtier sound. I don't want to know how many warts are on poorly recorded stuff. For modern produced pop/hip hop and stuff, think the Convert-2 is just oustanding. The cleanliness of the converter makes modern recordings shine.

    Imaging and presence is really good on Opals. Ssometimes I'm fooled into thinking I'm listening to a 3 way with the Opals, think the crossover at 1.6khz is brilliant. Can get loud as hell.

    Shame you can't find monitors like this priced with class AB amps, no DSP, no Analog to digital conversion, no off the shelf parts, etc.
     
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  7. FeddyLost

    FeddyLost Rando

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    It's required every time for any speakers setup, sub just adds leveling and crossover, not much difference.
    Sometimes room issues with sub can be solved even easier, because there's only 1 speaker working in range of main axial modes...

    Quested S8R, BM15A, KH310 for example.
    But I used thomann prices.
    And total absence of off-the-shelf now just useless, because IEC and XLR are standard ...
     
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  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    It's a shame Event couldn't actually make the Opals consistently. They're still for sale from Thomman.
     
  9. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    @rlow posted a great review of the S400 in the Bookshelf / standmount speaker thread. My comments will be a bit rambling but I'll try to add impressions involving nearfield usage.

    First, concerning burn-in. Out of the box, the midrange lacked definition and treble became harsh when the volume was turned up. After the first week, I was becoming skeptical about the internet hype around the S400, but then a transformation happened at around 60 hours (I am now at about 120 hours), and I became a believer. The response smoothed out, bass starts coming in at lower volume, mids developed a nice presence, and treble became airy and lost their harshness. It transformed into a bona fide audiophile speaker, which is not how I would have described it before. Notably, the burn-in transformation vastly improved the sound for nearfield listening.

    I've said before that my setup has dual purpose — the speakers are nearfield when I'm at my work desk, and I also play them into the room with volume turned up for listening 8-10 ft away. Thus my speaker placement requires compromises to balance the two cases. A setup that is working for me is the S400 pointing straight without toe-in, with speakers placed closer together than the standard nearfield equilateral triangle arrangement (my nearfield listening position is 4 ft away but speakers are only 3 ft apart). For room listening, the narrow placement shrinks the soundstage, but the S400 has a wide soundstage and the end result although not ideal is still good. For nearfield, this arrangement seems to place me at a certain offset angle from the S400 drivers that is a good blending of sound at 4 ft range.

    Overall, I enjoy the S400 at nearfield, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a dedicated nearfield system. At 4 ft distance, the Harbeth P3ESR (which I have for comparison) has a more cohesive sound and better imaging. The S400's waveguide produces a wide sweet spot but blurs the imaging. The P3ESR has a wonderful midrange that with the right recording can reproduce human voice and acoustic instruments with a palpable realism. The S400 midrange is good but couldn't match the Harbeth. On the other hand, the S400 is much more lively and dynamic. In comparison, the P3ESR sounds like something is holding it back.

    Dat S400 bass. It is going to prevent me from returning them at the end of the 30 day trial period. I have only owned bookshelf/standmounts all my life, and had never lived with good bass before. I do have a REL T7i subwoofer (acquired a few months ago), and many years ago I owned a Velodyne, but it isn't the same as having a speaker that seamlessly covers the entire range. I played some test tones and sweeps (https://www.audiocheck.net/ is a great resource) and found that the S400 is audible down to 30 hz in my room. Pretty remarkable for a compact passive speaker. The T7i adds some boost where the S400 is rolling off, but doesn't produce much lower extension. I listen primarily to classical music which isn't supposed to have much bass content, but I've been surprised hearing how much I've been missing.
     
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  10. Toolkit

    Toolkit Rando

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    How tight is it exactly? Air Motion Transformers have a quite wide dispersion, but terribly narrow dispersion, related to the physical size and shape of them. I'm probably going to buy the HEDD 07 this summer but I guess I just want an idea.

    Do you think these sound clear too? Everybody talks about the midbass being impressive on them but what I'm looking for is clarity.
     
  11. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    Thanks for the write up. It has been very helpful for me since I'm using it super nearfield like you, and have the option for midfield just by moving back and sitting on my bed
     
  12. Insomnium

    Insomnium Rando

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    Hi guys,

    I'm looking for some recommendations to upgrade from my current Audio Engine HD3 speakers. As they will sit below my monitors, I would want to keep the size around the same dimension as the HD3 and I believe the Transparent Zero is quite often recommended around this size? Is there any other speakers that I can look into? Thanks!
     
  13. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    KRK V4S4 and Neumann kH80. Maybe the tiny Genelecs. Just don’t expect volume, dynamics, or bass.
     
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  14. FeddyLost

    FeddyLost Rando

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    In principle you can look at iLoud Micro or iLoud MTM, maybe they'll fit.
    Or there's another wideband monitor project - DSP corrected single-driver system, but they have a lot of limitations and might be too high for you (8x8x8 inch size) - http://dmaxaudio.com/en/sc5
     
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  15. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    Many people set up their nearfield system on their computer desk which is usually against a wall, which could cause excess bass reinforcement with the S400's rear radiator. It isn't bad in my case because I have a bay window instead of a flat wall, but most people will need to keep this in mind. See Buchardt's comments about placing S400's close to a wall: https://www.buchardtaudio.com/s400-qa
     
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  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Just eq it down. You only need a few inches.
     
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  17. brokesnob

    brokesnob Rando

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    Hi guys,
    I'm a noob at this stuff, so please be patient with me...
    Monday I'm purchasing a set of Geithain RL906's, which will replace my Neumann KH120's (they have served me well, but wanting a change). I'm really looking forward to the Geithain's- they are NOT cheap to get over the pond to Canada, but I know I won't regret it.
    Anyways, this thread is really exactly what I needed, because I've been using my Neumann's for what I guess you could call "audiophile listening". Being a musician confined to a small room, the monitors also double as my "hifi" pleasure listening speakers- not just something I record with and play my synths through, but actually absorb hours of music via daily.
    With the Geithain's coming, I'm inspired to upgrade other parts of my setup as well, hoping you guys could help guid me.
    Currently I'm just using my Apogee Duet's built-in DAC, but would like to get a better dedicated DAC of some kind- hoping you lot could advise. Was considering Chord Qutest, but not balanced, so not sure if it's the right move...
    Also wondering if there's any need for an amp considering I'm using active speakers? And would a preamp be of any benefit? Lastly, how will I actually control volume of my setup? The Apogee Duet has a volume knob on it, and I'm not sure what interface I'll upgrade to, but for example, the Chord Qutest has no volume control on it.
    Hoping my post makes sense- I basically need an all-in-one solution which will involve the Geithain's acting both as hifi listening speakers and recording/playback monitors. Would like to add a good DAC to optimize sound quality. I intend to go down the vinyl/cd route eventually, but for now will only keep to my iMac as the source, and will potentially add some good headphones later this year (along w/ headphone amp).
    Thanks in advance!
     
  18. bilboda

    bilboda Friend

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  19. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    As a fellow Canadian, I'm curious how much the import fees hurt...
     
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  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    A few years back, these were my review-induced ambition. I had not heard them, and intended to, on an upcoming trip to London. Of course, that sort-of-meant, being fairly sure I'd buy them! As it happened, bad financial stuff occurred, and, although I was still able to enjoy my trip, GBP-thousands spending was absolutely off the menu. Which pissed me off so much that I didn't even go to the shop to listen.

    Now I am on a hearing-loss-induced audio-spending embargo: it is just not worth throwing money at my ears, at least until hifi hearing aids become a thing (and, whoa, they are not. they really mess with music).

    But I do sometimes wonder how it would have been if I had made that extravagant purchase!

    (But most of all, I regret missing the old-style-Genelec second-hand, not-bank-breaking deal. Boxed, never used. And the local distributors would have checked them out for me. Hey ho...)
     

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