Schiit Gunnr Review (sort of)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Oct 29, 2024.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Not really a review. It's more of use case thing - using gear I had lying around to put together something I am actually very happy with respect to gaming / precise sound localization with headphones.



    I was inspired to do this because I remarked to some friends how YT videos today are just so shilly (is that a word?) and that I wished reviewers out there would discuss the how and why they purchased and put gear together stuff. I questioned how people can truly be passionate about stuff if they just run through gear review after gear review and never talk about context of how they would actually use it themselves. The answer is that it would be up to me to do it.

    Don't forgot to subscribe. I want to be able to livestream in the future so I need the subs.

    Couple of takeaways with respect to sound (this is info outside of the video):
    • A huge step up from Hel. Hel and Fulla were alright, but they always sounded like something was off - that is not to entry level audiophile standards, but acceptable to Sound Blaster gamer folks. Gunnr is the first gaming doodad from Schiit which I felt actually sounds decent to audiophile ears.
    • From a sound quality perspective, a Magni / Modi stack or Magni Unity with DAC card is better, but still, the Gunnr ain't far behind. It's presentation is a bit mellower and softer.
    • Most dynamics like the R70X (decently review), HD600, will do decently with it. I think planars will struggle unless they are the entry level high-efficiency models, which I guess is just right. Caldera just sounded too soft from the Gunnr.
    • As a DAC with volume control and stereo width control, it's actually very good. I wasn't missing much vs Yggdrasil while gaming. The Yggdrasil with its filter still does certain things better like being able to feel sound from a distance move toward you. The Gunnr less so as sounds tend to be further way and stay that way. However, the stereo width reduction of the Gunnr was irreplaceable to me. I'm sure lower latency helps too.
    • I love the footprint. Similar to the Hel, but being wide instead of deep, with all the physical switches on the front, volume knob on top, and headphone and microphone jacks to the left of the front seems so right.
     

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  2. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Not enough vaporwave lighting, loud background music, and random cuts to take out literally every single breath between phrases. Not even any b-roll of you tryhard gaming with laser focus at your screen with bright flashing lights. Horrible video production :rolleyes:

    Actually serious: good vibes with the conversational tone. Maybe disable autofocus on your camera? Not sure what that crackling sound throughout was (was it your ceiling fan) but it gave off campfire vibes and actually was pleasant. Don't you have one of Soliloqueen's awesome kit capsules though? Could have recorded this from closer up at your desk, the emptyish room noise was actually a bit distracting, but I think I'm just pickier about that lately.

    How would you say the overall headstage and imaging package compares to the Magni Unity w/ ES9018? Mild hole in the middle effect from the Unity as an amp mixed with the really wide stage (but still more delineated than the AKM Modi 3+) from the DAC makes me feel like the Unity as an AIO might be a bit rough for gaming by comparison, even only comparing sans tone controls; haven't been gaming in forever cuz mood so can't test that in a candid way rn. Does the Gunnr come close to how shockingly refined (for the price) the Unity's treble is?

    I get what you mean about the Fulla, at least the prior AKM variants of it. Had a Fulla 2 from a friend and while it powered the HP-3 and HD600 well enough it was more a PC soundcard++ vibe to it. You got the gist of things but never really got sucked into the music IME.

    How's pairing with something like the HE-4xx or HE-5xx? I always felt the entry level HFM headphones were really nebulous in stage (same with the higher end ones, but I only have store demo setting impressions with those), and EQing the upper mid dip in didn't seem to address that entirely. Wondering if you can maybe brute force improve imaging with the controls on this when pairing with something that's decidedly not super good at it.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yeah focus breathing. Need more light. I heard the E10 mk ii has fixed this.

    I used the camera's built-in microphone since my good mic is at my other place. Unfortunately, it wasn’t ideal because there’s not much furniture here, which creates a lot of echo—especially problematic for a large condenser mic. I would need the XLR handle as well, requiring an upgrade from the E10 to the FX30. I have a shotgun mic on the way, so I'm curious to see if that will perform better. I wanted to focus on getting something recorded rather than stressing over production quality, which I can address later with better equipment. I let one good session slip away because the camera was set to slow motion. The first session is always the toughest. Plus, I need to familiarize myself with the camera functions before heading to CanJam.

    I’d say the overall headstage is quite similar between the Unity and the card. If there’s a gap in the center, you can compress the stereo image using the knob, which I tend to do frequently. With my Frugalhorns connected to the vintage tube receiver, I actually compress the stereo image since the Fisher amp has a stereo image knob! It’s amusing how @schiit brings back or revitalizes features that were popular in the past. In my surround sound PC setup with the small JBL monitors, I expand the stereo image using the Syn, as those JBLs are great at maintaining a solid center image—even without a dedicated center channel.

    The entry level HFM stuff works dandy. The Gunnr has no issues, and there’s no bass knob to overdo it—pushing up the bass and volume can be demanding on the amp due to the low impedance of the budget HFM headphones. However, it holds up fine under normal use. When it comes to headstage, most planar headphones struggle in that area. Even the HE1000 and Susvara have limitations with headstage (although it's all on them!) The advantage of the Gunnr is that we can manually widen the headstage. It’s a similar situation with Grados; we can expand the image, which is better than nothing.
     
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  4. Ti_Leo

    Ti_Leo Almost "Made"

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    Nice video! And I love that channel picture, hahahahah! But the shifting focus... Don't use autofocus for filming...

    It's a shame that I've always want to find how good those great headphones are for gaming, especially for shooting games, but I never get to it. But I found that great imaging with some special sounding could make a great gaming headphone.

    My theory is that headphones with thin string like sound shape and that lack of microdetail clean sounding might be great for gaming. The best "gaming headphone" in my book is Hifiman HE5SE (on Sennheiser GSX1000), as it had that special thin wire sound, it felt like with strings of sound being plucked out of a still ocean, and the rest of the picture is just void, and I believe it's a sign of lack of microdetails. So was it good for musical enjoyment? No! But was it good for gaming? Hell yeah! I dare say I can locate enemies behind me with HE5SE better than enemies in front me with some generic headphone. And to me, there's a huge difference between pinpointing the jumpy zombie behind the cover with HE5SE that I dared to shoot through the wall if the game supported it, and just knowing there's a zombie and get ready, the confidence level was different.

    But here's the thing: this type of sound is not that good for general use or even for general games... And that's why I sold my HE5SE. So I've got this take that great headphone (system) might not be the very best thing for gaming. I mean, it can be really good, say but not the best.

    @Lyander HE400SE and both Deva and Deva Pro are OK on GSX1000, nothing special, but GSX1000 is weak on power I believe, with more power they should sound tighter, which is better, and theoretically so do most of other headphones... And I kind of believe that those boring soft thin diagram higher tier models from Hifiman can be good for gaming, but I haven't tried many. Audivina's got that thin sound shape feeling, but I didn't test it for gaming as it just sucked on music and it was too posh for gaming.

    And here's my other hot take on headphones for gaming: I don't think people should prioritize soundstage for gaming. I mean, soundstage is good, for most of games, but when I was playing shooting games using HE5SE, I much preferred that not so big circle of sound, which was really manageable, to a HD800 driven by a mediocre amp, which can be quite diffused. But as I can still see people considering or using HD800 for gaming, because of its soundstage. If HD800 was driven by some correct amps, sure! By I'm guessing a lot of people might consider things like Topping, and if that's so, I might just prefer HD600 + Magni... And, better soundstage doesn't mean you can hear movement in further distance, right?
     
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  5. Empyah

    Empyah Facebook Friend

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    Well, it's definitely not the worst video I've seen on youtube! :pirate07:

    Sure it can get better in every way possible, but it already has something most videos are missing and that is -
    good, honest and well presented information. The rest is window dressing anyway.

    Edit: I would consider renaming the channel to SBAF, to get more clout and open it up for reviews from other members.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 30, 2024
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yeah, at this point, I'd rather get one of those manual E-mounts. The issue with modern lenses is that they often lack physical controls and are fully automatic. As a newcomer to the E10, navigating the menus to switch to manual mode was unfamiliar territory. I've read that focus breathing is a problem with the first version of the E10 paired with certain lenses. It turns out I might have achieved better results with the newer cheapo 16-50mm kit lens than with the older 12mm Zeiss! Regardless, this kind of issue shouldn't occur today, particularly with Sony, which is supposed to be idiot proof. I plan on picking up the FX30 for CanJam.

    The dynamic brethren of ZMF excel at microdetail (the Caldera is impressive too, as I've learned plugging in the Caldera into the EC 45 Custom). This poses a dilemma for me between the Aegir 2 and Vidar 2. While I appreciate the additional detail, plankton, and microdynamics offered by the Aegir 2, I'm leaning toward the Vidar 2 because it delivers a cleaner, more articulate sound and a presentation with greater contrast in volume. There's some detail missing, but nothing crucial for gameplay. Game designers cleverly telegraph enemy attacks with subtle but discernable cues, and it seems they employ similar techniques with sound effects as well (something I just realized).

    or more immersive games that don't rely heavily on quick reactions, like Cyberpunk, I would opt for a setup with low contrast and high plankton - more of a music system. However, for a game like Space Marine 2, where being inattentive for even half a second can lead to death, a high contrast, articulate setup works better.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You have to start somewhere. If I aimed for perfection, the video might never have been released!

    I was inspired by watching the Nerdforge channel and seeing how much she's improved her production and presentation over the years. All her early work is still available to see.

    Yes, but I enjoy dumb names. I asked friends for a channel name, and this one was the winner. It's really an experiment in branding: Can good content prevail despite having an incongruous, humorous name? I would have continued with Changstar, and it did last for several years until the site became toxic, which ultimately damaged the Changstar brand.
     
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  8. Empyah

    Empyah Facebook Friend

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    "It's really an experiment in branding: Can good content prevail despite having an incongruous, humorous name?"

    Yes, most definitely can, seen it many times on youtube.
     
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  9. SofaSamuraiX

    SofaSamuraiX Almost "Made"

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    Oh golly Mister, I sure would like to try one of those out forever someday. Thanks for the review, only gripe was the ceiling fan running at what I assume was ludicrous speed!!! Pretty sure I saw plaid.
    Edited for this: I would watch moar of your youtube takes, you will iron out the kinks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2024
  10. SofaSamuraiX

    SofaSamuraiX Almost "Made"

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    @purr1n , do you mind if I share an honest opinion?
     
  11. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Actually I think the new name is indicative of a trend we’ve been moving toward: taking the hobby and ourselves less seriously. I suspect that, over time, it will overtake the readership that we have here if you keep posting.
     
  12. joch

    joch Friend

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    The video was good. Much better than some seasoned reviewers with excessive splicing or (ugh) nausea inducing panning from a GoPro. Good job!
     
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  13. Qildail

    Qildail Friend

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    If it wasn't, it is now, because it fits so well into so many places... Think of all the rhyming possibilities -- a gold mine of skewering people just ready to go there.

    I totally am on board that this was meant in jest, but... Longer videos get more "engagement time" and more advertisement insert opportunities. That's why you see a lot of slow intros and glamour shots with some channels. Don't hate the player; hate the game (but you can still hate the player).

    Seems to work decently enough for the gang down in Corpus, eh?

    If we could somehow impart laughing at our own nonsense as a permanent side effect of using audio gear, we'd have so much more inclusiveness of non-audiophiles into the hobby, and we'd probably enjoy our music/movies more. But I digress.

    Done. Thanks for all you do, Marv.
     
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  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I refuse to play that game. YouTube / Google love and promote longer videos because there's more time to insert ads. My intention is that all my videos will be short, unless it's an interesting podcast.

    LOL. I was wondering when people would figure that out.

    Thank you and this ^. This hobby can get so serious. The more money spent, the more serious. I get the very serious aspects as I'm guilty of spending loads myself. At the end of the day, we have to laugh at ourselves. I think you are one of the few who get what I'm trying to do.

    I may purposely make janky production quality videos just because...
    (And I think folks forget where I worked / work at in Hollywood? As I've never seen how it's done.)

    Curious what will happen if I have any negative reactions to gear at CanJam in my YT coverage of the event ;-)
     
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  15. Degru

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    At this point I think the Edition XS is probably the best "budget" hifiman, for how cheap it sells for (under $300 right now). Big step up in presentation from the 4xx style round cans, better clarity.. also easier to drive. It's fairly sensitive, and I don't have any complaints about using it from portable sources, where I felt that the 400-series were a little lackluster without a beefier amp. Would say it's a very good candidate to pair with the Gunnr.
     
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  16. Royaume

    Royaume Acquaintance

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    I am auditioning the SPL Phonitor X against the Mjolnir 3, and yeah, the crossfeed implementation is just incredible with HD800 for gaming. Even for music it's pretty awesome-sauce.

    I sort of want to own an SPL phonitor 3 one day (I think this is possible with 2 also? But the crossfeed implementation is apparently not as good) just so I can pass the signal, from the DAC through the crossfeed matrix and out the passthrough to a real amp that does a good job for the HD800. Let me know when Schiit - or SPL either - make a dedicated crossfeed implementation, fully balanced xlr in and out, for headphone use. Syn is super cool, but not quite what I'm looking for here. Basically a Loki-type product, but crossfeed instead of EQ.

    Aside:
    Mjolnir wins in terms of resolution, separation, plankton, and microdetail and dynamics. But the Phonitor X wins in overall macrodetail, cohesiveness, bass impact (though it's more rounded, and less square), midrange warmth ("inner warmth/light"), has a little more weight and liquidity/wetness. I really cannot decide which I prefer, given the disparity in feature-set. One day I would like to have the best of both, even if it means Frankenstein-ing something together.

    Edit: Using MJ3 with low-gain, balanced, no feedback, because this sounds best to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2024
  17. Armaegis

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    I have the Phonitor 2. Yes, you can indeed run the crossfeed matrix out through the preamp outputs. It's a little dip switch on the bottom. I also have the matching SPL Expansion Rack, because apparently I really wanted the matching aesthetic and rack mount whatevers. Also the SPL Mercury, because I'm dumb.
     

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