Schiit Tyr Monoblock Amplifier Reviews and Impressions

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by AllanMarcus, Apr 3, 2022.

  1. chesebert

    chesebert Acquaintance

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    I heard you can buy these amps one at a time. Normally you buy two and they come in matched pair. Is there a risk of potential gain variance if buying unmatched pair? If not, are they using some heavy negative feedback for correction, which is not my thing. But the price is very attractive.
     
  2. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    To both questions: No.
     
  3. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    Not that I've seen. Normally monoblock amplifiers are not sold as a matched set.
     
  4. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    Btw, on Jason's HF thread people are reporting that in some cases shipping is cheaper if you buy two single Tyrs separately instead of as a pair.
     
  5. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    Ohhh, chesebert's question makes much more sense now. I thought he wanted to buy one now to gawk at and buy another in six months when he could afford it or something like that.

    @chesebert Schiit isn't selling these amps in matched pairs, they just pull two finished amps down off the shelf and ship them out.
     
  6. Paul Scandal

    Paul Scandal Rando

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    I'm in Florida. I did not Tyr up because, well, hot summers. And falls and springs.

    So common sense is still telling me 2 Tyr is hotter than 1 Vidar ... is that what you say, common sense?

    Because size matters? Right.

    okay. I think.
     
  7. Wobbletits

    Wobbletits Acquaintance

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    I'm not saying they're definitely more heat at every output level...
    Continuity™ *might* make the tyrs use less power at some low output levels, like below vidar biasing point, I'm not 100% clear on how that works in practice, however I think the specs indicate that given the same output power the tyrs are proably less efficient. They "idle" a little cooler maybe, probably best way to check is measure how much power they actually draw for the "same" things?
    My main point was simply that 110 lbs of metal even if half of it is choke/transformer is simply going to dissipate heat (into the room) much better than 22 lbs of metal and that the case temp was in no way a clear indicator that it was going to be a "A/C-independent summer usable amp" as per the post ahead of mine.
     
  8. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    If you go by power consumption vs power output, Tyr is likely to run cooler than a pair of Aegir but put off more heat than a pair of Vidar. Hopefully someday we'll measure it to confirm though.
     
  9. kee7a

    kee7a Rando

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    The choke input seems like a neat idea, but how do you think a choke on an amp would compare with using one of those big power conditioners with the power banks like the Furman IT reference 15i before the amp? It seems like they are both trying to solve similar problems of ensuring the power is available for peak draws.
     
  10. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    These solve different tasks.
    The following is just a hunch from my part: to me it makes sense the choke in the amp would be after the rectifier bridge (rectified AC is nasty-nasty stuff), where the choke really is a wonderful choice. Compared to standard solution with capacitors right after, the caps get all the torture. As with everything in universe being interrelated the caps right after rectifier make the rectifier life a lot harder, the transformer sweats more (high peak currents) - all in turn will make impact to the sound.
    If true, the secondaries are running at pretty high voltage to overcome the huge voltage drop on the chokes. Also there would be load dependent swing in the rails, which would make sense to be regulated by somewhat.
    I planned to build psu with choke filtering like that for an amp, but didn't find suitable choke from stores and went another route. Now I might reconsider and wind some chokes myself. - end of speculation.

    AC conditioner helps with perhaps more stable voltage, common mode filtering, high frequency noise. Some of those are transformer based, which would lift the ground and remove lots of the ground issues, output being true differential.
    Transformer based filtering should not be underestimated - it makes ridiculously big positive difference in sound. Regardless of level the system is at and regardless that there already are transformers inside most electronics.
     
  11. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    A choke (the L in CLC) in a PSU is better at reducing power supply ripple compared to a resistor (CRC). This happens after the rectifier. Hence, it's cleaning up the dirty rectifier DC voltage that powers the rest of the amplifier. This is different to a conditioner. A conditioner attempts to clean up the AC coming out of the wall and feeding the PSU.

    So you have:

    Wall AC -> Conditioner attempts to clean it up -> Amp rectifier -> choppy DC -> CRC (capacitor/resistor/capacitor) or CLC (capacitor/inductor(choke)/capacitor) cleans up the choppy DC -> clean DC powers input and output sections and whatever ancillary functions the amp may have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    The Furman makes sure AC power is stable - able to keep voltage and deliver current. To make sure the outlet at the wall is 115VAC as much as possible regardless of load.

    The choke inside a power supply circuit plays a role in keeping the DC power rails stable - that is minimizing noise, high frequency crap, filtering AC, etc. The purer the DC on the power rails, the lower the noise and distortion, particularly in discrete circuits. As capacitors can act as a voltage source for a limited period of time, inductors (chokes) can act as a current source. Inductors have an inertia to changes in current.

    Chokes are old school brute force. Some tube amps, especially from DIYer types, will employ a choke in the power supply. We never see them because inductors are a pain in the ass to fabricate, and because they consist of a lot of metal for the core and wire for the windings, they are expensive. The most common approach today is with big caps, or banks of boutique caps. I imagine the chokes needed for the current output requirements of the Tyr are ginormous.

    Furman: AC at the outlet
    Choke: DC at the power rails inside the amp
     
  13. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    Even capacitor input supplies sometimes use inductors in the second stage to clean up ripple.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    Quick impressions.

    The system set up below consists of DIY "BWC" 3-ways in 10 cu.ft. cabs. Mids are 6" that cover 500-2500Hz. Highs are 1.25" 4-ohm largish soft domes. Priority was put on simplified xover with as few parts as possible at some expense to perfect flatness. I built these as a challenge to myself using the cheapest ass parts I could find that could do the job. Building good sounding speakers using expensive drivers is easy. To build something that sounds good using modest parts is difficult. My aims were liveliness, dynamism, and fast attack - and able to be used in small rooms against the wall.* These speakers "throw" sound at you, even the softest sounds pack a small wallop. They also do 110db with ease, even from from an Aegir. (As an aside, I am temporary partially deaf today because I could not resist cranking it up with AC/DC Back in Black at 115db SPL sitting five feet in front of the speakers). These speakers ended up exceeding my expectations - I actually much prefer these to the JBL 4498s that I have. I was thinking that after starting with affordable parts, that I would eventually replace the drivers with those hi-tech ceramic Accutons. I don't think I will do so now because I know I will lose sensitivity. Overall sensitivity is a real 94-95db. Freya + is used, but in the buffer or bypass mode. Source is a meager Modi with iPad as the player. As such, I cannot determine how good the Tyr really is. The source is the primary limitation. BTW, there is nothing like having a dedicated midrange for vocals. (Two-ways with the xover smack in the midrange are weird sounding after you experience a dedicated mid).

    PXL_20220420_124941833.jpg

    Basically the Tyr provides the best of the Vidar and Aegir, adds a dose of Nexus richness, and True HiFi™ intangibles. Aegir has a lot going for it, but the presentation can be too rounded, sometimes too soft. Vidar isn't as expressive as Aegir, but grips the driver, and provides a lot of heft. Freya S in Nexus mode would have been too much of a good thing (too rich) since the front end of the Tyr is Nexus. Because the Tyr uses the Nexus front end, it takes either single-ended or balanced input without a difference in sound (assuming these outputs from your source do indeed sound the same). TBH, Tyr could use a really good quality potentiometer or transformer volume control. The input impedance is quite high around 50 kohms, and this is a good thing as these monoblocks are super easy to drive lending the use of passive pres.

    There's a stateliness of presentation that really reminds me of really good high powered Class A amps from a prior era. (Remember where Jason used to work and what he designed in a prior life). The difference is that these don't seem to be space heaters. They are cool to the touch, much cooler than Vidar, but then again, they do have more heatsinking and surface area.

    The highs are buttery smooth, smoother than the Aegir, less grainy than Vidar even if Vidar really ain't that grainy. It's that that few percent here. There a dose of warmth about on par with the Vidar. There's a dose of richness. However, the Tyr does not sound organic, thick, overly warm, or phat. I suspect a low level of second or even order harmonics and will confirm on the bench at a later time. It does not sound at all like solid-state amps with odd order harmonics. Like other Schiit gear, the transients are middle of the road, not what I would call fast or square, perhaps a bit on the rounder side (but less round than Aegir). If you want lightning fast transients and super separation, something like the Hegel H2 would be more up your alley. The delivery of sound is more or less straight up, without the intentional euphony of Japanese stuff like Accuphase, but equally engaging. The micro-attacks, the microdynamics, are off the charts already. I learned to really appreciate what Sara Bareilles (her live album) can do with her voice. In a lot of ways, the Tyr reminds me of the sound of, dare I say, the Dartzeel amps ($20-$200k).

    I know this is bold statement, but Tyr could be the first piece of Schiit that deserves the True Hi-Fi™ designation**. I would need more time with better sources and a variety of speakers to make a confident call about the Tyr. What usually prevents gear from me allotting it True Hi-Fi™ status are minor niggles. For example, Yggdrasil LIM is not sufficiently resolving of low level information, Aegir is soft, AHB2 is too clinical, Parasound A21(and that's their good sounding model) is meh. I'm pretty sure True Hi-Fi™ was @schiit's goal. A pair of Tyr, and yes, we do need a pair, aren't cheap. But they aren't $200K either.

    * Golden ratio speaker placement is retarded. Facilitated by speaker manufacturers intent on getting wives to divorce their husbands because their husbands wanted to put the speakers in the middle of the room. Ultimately it comes down to design decisions. Not my fault that goober speaker designers from audiophool companies want to design speakers that cannot, must not, be placed against the back wall - not to mention in a room bigger than the entire square footage of an average home in Texas.

    **Although it can be argued that Yggdrasil first edition deserved that too because there was literally nothing much around a lot of the expensive DAC competition around that time was in retrospect garbage.
     
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  15. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    Tyr after being left on for several hours playing music at moderate SPL. Ambient temp was about 74F or 23C.

    PXL_20220420_150014971.jpg
    PXL_20220420_150031412.jpg
     
  16. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    @purr1n Is there a build thread on those speakers? I love the handles.
     
  17. Fullalover

    Fullalover Rando

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    How do you think it compares to pass xa25? Especially micro stuff and timbre?

    Does it have more microdynamics than Aegir? Trying to get a sense if it's just a less rounded Aegir with Freya pre and more power or something next level
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
  18. dBel84

    dBel84 Friend

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    If there isn't , the concept is very similar to the Monkey Coffin build on DIYA

    [​IMG]

    These amps have me seriously considering a more thermally acceptable option for the Maggies

    ..dB
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/pass-labs-xa25.8320/

    I didn't care for the XA25. It was overly thick and slow sounding and with that classic JFET+FET+MOSFET sound that I do not care for. This doesn't mean that I dislike gear with MOSFET output devices. It just means that there is a certain kind of sound that I do not like. The XA25 reminded me of the speaker version of the Schiit Asgard 1, which I am almost sure took a very similar approach / toplogy.

    Generally, amps like this are better with fast / brightly tilted speakers and headphones. The Asgard 1 worked very well with Grados, Beyer DT880, etc. Likewise the XA25 does really well with Maggies, Quads, and maybe some horn speakers which are voiced lean or have an amount of treble f'ery. I've been able to check out the XA25 with other speakers since my initial experience. Surprisingly, the XA25 sounds a lot more powerful than its rated wattage suggested. I should mention that I felt the XA25 worked really well with the Raal SR1a - this is not surprising because the SR1a is a fast brightly tilted earspeaker.

    The problem is that none of the speakers I own or have created are voiced this way. I hate bright speakers. Hence the XA25 tends to be a bad match with whatever speaker I happen have on hand or just built. Personally, I prefer not to address one shortcoming with another. Considering that I didn't think the XA25 quite matched the Aegir with respect to microdynamics and microdetail, and that the Tyr (did more experiments today) beats the Aegir in these respects, I don't think the XA25 matches up.

    I stole the idea from guitar cabs. In fact, the cabinet's origins is a bass guitar cab. Makes things much easier for boxes that weigh over 100 lbs.

    Similar idea, that is a three way. The Monkey Coffin would be the more nuanced higher-fi more expensive version. I didn't go this route because the only midrange I would have considered for a higher-fi application is that famous ATC dome mid. I just learned something, that Volt makes a replica of that dome mid. The waveguide on the tweeter is a brilliant idea to bring up sensitivity for a small diameter exotic material diaphragm. The 12" is a great choice that would better match the 3" dome and keep the cab size reasonable. This is the Porsche 911 GT3 version. My version is the Camaro ZL1 (won't keep up in the turns or braking, but out of the turn on the straightaway, will reel it in). What I did wasn't reasonable in respect to size, but I love the sound of big cabs (it's easier to avoid "boxiness" sound using a minimum of internal absorption / internal wall lining - too much damping kills transient response).
     
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  20. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    At moderate volume and at idle. I'm just not pushing the Tyr enough. Part of this is because of the fairly efficient speakers.
    PXL_20220421_161932963.jpg

    A single Tyr uses about 45W at the outlet. That means x2 Tyr is about 90W, which is the same as a single Aegir. The Aegir will get hot. This is why the Tyr does not get hot: A single Tyr uses half the wattage of the Aegir, and looks to have about three to four times more surface area and heatsinking.
     
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