Schiit Tyr Monoblock Amplifier Reviews and Impressions

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by AllanMarcus, Apr 3, 2022.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    LOL, what do you think inside in those chip-based amps?

    Some use-cases for such amps have been mentioned already. The PS3ESR is good example. Can't blame people for wanting good sound nearfield. The PS3ESR are 83db/1W/1m. The tweeter on the PS3ESR is fantastic sounding. That Eton??? mid-bass driver is pretty darn good too. Smaller multi-way near-field monitors are going to suck with it comes to efficiency / sensitivity regardless because of the constraints of a small woofer required to go as low as possible. 200W seems like overkill, but it really isn't when we realize that +3db requires double the power.

    The table below illustrates how much power we need to reach certain SPLs (be sure to take into account peaks). Yellow marks where the PS3ESR like at approximately 1W. I think under most normal listening circumstances, we aren't getting close to 200W, but we can see how the wattage demands start to go up dramatically. Besides, I have suspicions that the PS3ESR are even less efficient that what is advertised.

    upload_2022-5-5_15-17-8.png

    --

    Interesting enough, I actually had a conversation with co-worker who works with the sound guys. As an aside, they seem to love the old school Dynaudios, the passive ones. BM15 for example, withOUT their latest and greatest (and IMO more rubbery sounding) woofers. First of all, he said he's not into vinyl or tubes, because he wants to hear what he hears in the mix and mastering stages. This means loud. This means solid-state. This means stuff seen in the studio rooms. In other words, he wants to hear what the "artist intended" or at least what the sound engineers, executives, and artists themselves actually heard before they signed off on it. A reasonable assumption is sustained 95db, with peaks 6-12db above that.

    Other relevant parameters are 4-ohms, 88db sensitivity (2.83V), and medium-field, a bit farther away than nearfield, so say 1.5m instead of 1m. That means take away 3.5db from the 88db figure to get 84.5 sensitivity at 1.5m. Now let's see what happens. It's even worse than the above case.

    upload_2022-5-5_15-37-46.png

    Basically that 37W chip or PP tube amp ain't gonna cut it. These amps will clip, and if they don't will be close and sound like shit. And no, I'm not going to second guess my co-worker's personal tastes or goals. At least he has one, knows what he wants, unlike most neophyte (and many experienced) audiophiles who seem to flail about. BTW, he did ask me about the Tyr a few days ago. (How he became a Schiithead, I'm not too sure. It would be funny if I started to see Schiit gear, particularly the Vidar in the studios).

    --

    Finally, let's assume we are listening to rock / pop music which likely has no more than 3db of dynamic range. Well, remember the adage "that more power always sound better", which I think does very much apply to solid-state amps. I know that there have been arguments from the beginning of time of how much power is enough. However, this is the wrong question.

    I postulated a few posts back (https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...iews-and-impressions.12178/page-4#post-381617) on why this really isn't the right question. It's really how much power do we need before odd order or higher order harmonics start to rear their ugly head.

    So this is another reason. More power, at least for amps with complementary solid-state output devices, will stave off "crap-factor" distortion (term per @atomicbob).
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  2. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I have an early pair of Goodmans Maxim (or Maximus in some regions) speakers which were contemporaries of the original LS3/5 and are even smaller than the P3ESR. (for my taste they play much better than any harbeth). they are good with 8 watts, with rock music, in an average sized room. $3500 monoblocks which are bigger than the speakers is a very weird use case for nearfield listening and not one I personally understand. to each their own.

    I could not disagree more with this entire line of reasoning. but this ties back into what I said about certain designs appealing to certain system building archetypes. I was just curious what the reviewer (with his undisclosed system configuration) saw in his purchasing decision of the Tyr given that he already has had heard similar amps from Pass, Coda, et al. as I assume those amps also did not give him the satisfaction he was looking for.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    This thing don't measure like one and don't sound like one. I know those who have heard it including myself say it's kind of best of Vidar and Aegir, but this is a simplification to be honest, I really think Tyr is it's own thing. There are some oddities here considering that even the outputs are differential (manual says to do not ground either or boom, whereas with most other power amps, one terminal is ground). With differential outputs, I would expect there to be a cancellation of second and even harmonics (which is not necessarily good). However, not seeing this. The distortion pattern is very much like a triode.

    Those old school Goodmans were 8-16-ohms impedance on the specsheet, which probably meant they never dipped below 8-ohms at any point. BBC LS3/5A were official 11-ohms. Rogers version says 15-ohms. These aren't sucking as much current. The divider for the power / wattage calculation is more than double on the Maxim. The PS3ESR follows more modern trends towards lower efficiency / sensitivity with lower impedance. Really not comparable.

    You or I may disagree with this reasoning. However you came off as "this is dumb, why da fuck does anyone need 200W of dumb power if want wonderment, please explain to me why". I answered it: some people use speakers that actually need the power, more power sounds better because the more we can stave off "crap-factor" distortion, the better, some people just prefer solid-state over tubes.

    P.S.

    I've been a high-efficiency speaker guy for a while now - for reasons as what I term "free power". However, there's good high power "complementary BJT output stage" amps out there, some of it named in this thread, at not unreasonable prices. We are talking about stuff that's good step above the typical Parasound, Bryston, Classe, NAD, MacIntosh, Rotel, etc. to where I feel it's worth to build a low-moderate efficiency speaker design just to see. I'm curious about these ceramic and diamond drivers. There are certain advantages with such designs and vice-versa.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  4. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    Given the Bryston reference, I’d love to know if anyone who’s owned some of the recent Bryston power amps buys Tyrs and how they compare.
     
  5. Fullalover

    Fullalover Rando

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    I tried Tyr cause Schiit usually makes good products that punches above their class.
     
  6. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Fair enough.

    Umm, isn’t that pretty much just like…
    Don't you think these amps, if you stuck them on an analyzer, would have clearly measurable and highly audible distortion profiles? You make it sound like these are more pure and true than solid state choices or modern tube alternatives. In reality aren’t you just choosing the colouration you prefer and that matches your preferences and priorities? I’m going to bet there are a ton of people out there that would A/B your amp with a set of Tyr and clearly prefer the sound quality/profile of the latter for their own reasons. Lots of people connect emotionally with balls-to-the-wall bass, recessed mids and rolled off highs. I’m personally far more emotionally involved in something with a great soundstage and resolution of low level detail than I am with bass slam or “speed”, but some people get off on that. You’ve said in the past that you don’t really care about soundstage, but that’s a must-have for me.
    Because at the end of the day, we all have different tastes, and some people may think Tyr is end-game territory, based on what they prioritize. That one dude just so happened to think they don’t have as much “prat” or whatever you want to call it than the Pass 30.8, and that is an aspect that tickles the hairs on the back of his neck and gets his toe tapping, so Tyr just isn’t going to cut it.
     
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    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  7. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    no. I don't believe that at all.

    I don't see where I said that, it sounds more like an assumption and strawman argument on your part. my question for the OP was only about pre-purchase analysis as the subject of consumer psychology in audio interests me. I've spoken about it a good deal on my podcast. otherwise, I don't care about the Tyr in specific at all. you don't have to preach subjective relativism to me, I understand people have preferences. OP kindly replied, so I will see myself out now :)
     
  8. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I don't believe this either, we've had amplifiers with below audible noise floors for 80 years now.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    I believe @rlow is referring to vintage SE and PP transformer coupled tube amps. They will have distortion and hum a magnitude (or two, or three, or four) greater than that of solid-state gear. I'll take measurements of the Fisher KX-200 when I get a chance out of curiosity.
     
  10. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I wonder if the hum is worse for some people because it couples to their audio rack.

    Also if you have both amps on the same rack it might reinforce the noise if it’s in sync
     
  11. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    Some of it will be environment too. If you live in rural Idaho and your nearest neighbor is a mile from you, your room will be quieter at 12 noon then it will be at 3AM for someone who lives in San Francisco. Your power might be dirtier in the rural area though.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    Here we go for Aegir, same set of voltages (at least the higher ones) as Tyr.
    • Aegir seems to have more higher level spurs.
    • Less of the classic triode pattern with regards to some harmonics from fourth to sixth order either being pushed down or not as evident.
    • Overall higher noise floor and hum
    upload_2022-5-8_14-4-35.png

    upload_2022-5-8_14-10-7.png
     
  13. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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    That separation between 2nd and 3rd gets harder to maintain as you get closer to max power. One of the things I've seen Pass do is to put a load on the output of the VAS to increase H2 as the power increases, keeping a "triode like" spread between H2 and H3.

    My current mono-blocks have separate front-end boards so I can try out some of these things.
    progress5.JPG


    I have a CFA front-end design with optional loading, but I haven't built it yet:

    upload_2022-5-8_23-0-58.png
     

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  14. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Every amp will have an output power sweet spot where distortion will be at a minimum for at least a 10 dB dynamic range. If that range coincides with the electro-acoustic transducer efficiency and the listener's sound level preferences, a great deal of auditory satisfaction will be achieved, provided the ability to achieve that sweet spot has a minimum of negative feedback necessary.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2022
  15. blisteringblather

    blisteringblather Rando

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    I perused and enjoyed most of this thread. I'd love to hear comments comparing Tyr to the AVA DMA-225 mono blocks, same SRP.

    Not wanting to get too far OT but I thought this might be helpful.

    For persons lacking a superb preamp and needing one to consider a separate power amp like Tyr: I cannot more highly recommend Topping's Pre90 @ only $600 SRP in the US. I know some prefer DAC direct to power amp; I compared direct to a good line preamp countless times and the latter always won.

    I owned or auditioned here @ home in my main system preamps up to a recent $6500 tube type and another celebrated $6500 SS line stage. (I'd rather list competing makes/models in PM rather than post publicly.) Pre90 is the best I heard by good margin. Audio Science Review published performance specs on par with or better than Benchmark's $2500 line stage. Kalman Rubinson bought his review Pre90 for his own use in his refined system. Pre90 competes for all-time best audio value.

    Output impedance is insanely low, ca. 20/40-ohms unbalanced/balanced IIRC, meaning it will drive any known commercial load. Full balanced differential: RCA and XLR balanced outputs and use both simultaneously. Match/calibrate input gain for each separate source. Only 1 each RCA and XLR inputs but add 3 XLR/1 RCA in outboard box w/the same dimensions and only $250. No tape monitor (IMO tape monitor is less than useless.)

    1.5V alkaline batteries replacing 1.2V NiCad increased the remote distance range (off-axis range remains pretty low.) That and a lack of HT bypass are my only nit-picks.
     
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  16. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    I wish those next three paras elaborated this.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    ^ Don't waste breath. Likely someone from ASR/Topping/China fake-reviewer (yes, people like this are often employed).

    IP addresses don't check out. One is from a Microsoft data center in Iowa. The other somewhere in Pennsylvania. Both IP6 and look sus. Main indicator is how a Tyr thread turned into an advertisement for the PRE99 listing specs and appealing to authority, random person named Kal-El Robertson.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  18. Baten

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    His account name 'blisteringblather' reads like some one-time secret to me, doesn't help his credibility lol.
     
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