Senneheiser HD660S Impressions

It does not bother me to see a fair number of people running to cancel an order, nor does it bother me to see people selling off a new headphone when @Marvey makes comments like this.

The reason is that the people that rushed over to order the headphone most likely did it blindly given how recent the HD660S release is. I personally hate to sell the things I buy. I'm a believer of keeping what I buy. Furthermore, when I see people selling their headphones, I do not think it was because of @Marvey and "group think". I honestly think these people, like you, have free will and their own mind, and felt the headphone did not merit keeping. Based on what I know about the headphone, I'm honestly not surprised.

Just because you found these headphones a good fit for you, it does not mater that folks that disagree with you fall in the "group think" category.

To further put my mind on the clear here:

1. I do not believe in "break in period", as in a new headphone changing with time. Specially after the first hours of use. If it does, the headphone is crap.
2. I believe early opinions have a good amount of weight. Specially when folks have ample experience with different set of headphones.
3. I also think the TH-xx and pretty much the entire line of Fostex sucks ass. And I don't think the world of the Jot. So there you have "group think" from an Admin here at SBAF.

I think you like the HD660S. I can't say I understand why based on what I've seen. It doesn't seem like a bad headphone, but I fail to see it's place given the current HD6x0 line up. I will eventually hear them. But I honestly do not expect much. And I'm not going to jump into buying them on a rush, nor recommend to do so.

 

I will further say that I'm actually very proud to be part of a forum that don't hype the shit out of every other product that comes out of a manufacturer's butt hole.

This is obviously not an "appreciation" thread. This is a real impressions thread. And IMO a useful one for a change (given Ad-Fi's state of things).

Your impressions @Ice-man, matter. And they matter a lot. And so are the mild and not so positive ones as well.

(BTW, I've been around enough to see "group think" at several different forums. Including the ones that complain about "group think" here at SBAF. I don't think this thread is an example of that).

 

A big problem is people selectively reading into what they want to believe. I don't think I've ever said the Jotunheim was my favorite Schiit amp. I may have said that when heard an early iteration of the Jotunheim on a PCB twenty three years ago, it was one of my favorite Schiit designs and that I had hoped that Jason put it into production.

I always leave plenty of usage notes. Good synergies, specific qualities which are good, others not so good. What troubles me is that SBAF tends to ignore these things. At Changstar, there would usually be a lot of follow up. More specific questions. Heck, I even drew a Schiit hexagon spider web chart showing how most of their amps stack up (there is no clear winner in all aspects), and even today, people ignore this. I bet most of you guys don't even know what my favorite Schiit amp is for the HD650 / HD600s. HINT: it does everything well the Jot does not do well, and sucks at what the Jot does well.

Also, I always take into context price. The HD660S costs more than every Schiit amp except for two (and one of those two is really speaker amp).

 

Indeed, if the HD660S was $150, it likely would get the Golden Schlong award. It does not cost $150. And it probably never will given the HD5x9 line are in that price range already.

Anyhow, don't get discouraged to post your impressions guys. Keep them coming. Good or bad

Will be off to keep the SNR up, until I actually get my handses on these.

 

I would rather see people cancel orders or not buy something because of Marv, even if done with haste and not reading carefully for detailed insight, than waste their money buying too much random shit over and over and over because of tons of hype from randos on other sites. This hobby and industry too easily put people in a vicious cycle of buying and selling crap at an absurd pace. It's a problem and an addiction. Call it what you want, group think or whatever (it happens in all hobbies), and maybe folks are too quick to act, but I say it's a necessary corrective force, and one that is more likely to reinforce money saving habits than encourage the opposite.

 

In comparison to the HD600, the HD660S doesn't really do much better:

• The extra sensitivity of the HD660S isn't needed, with even with voltage limited Fulla 2, which I am using right now at work with both HD600 and HD660S. I'm sure sure there is a good use case for running these open full-sized headphones from a true portable like Sony ZX2 or AK120.
• The bass of the HD600 is just a bit better. The HD660S bass is more voluminous, but murkier. It's easier to hear exact pitch of the bass drops, especially on lowest one, on Daft Punk's Doin' it Right.
• The frequency response isn't too much different from the HD600. The HD660S has the roughly the same bass levels (with extra warmth from distortion) and slightly less treble compared to the HD600. I prefer the HD660S frequency response (by some serendipity, the HD660S frequency response is the same as the HD660K's - go figure).
• HD600 transients are just a bit zippier. More lively. (The HD650 transients can be said to be boring). The HD660S transient rises are somewhere in between the HD650K and HD600. Transient decays are what the HD660S does really well. Full stop. Nice.
• Clarity is wash. HD600 wins in lows. HD660S wins in highs.
• I hear zero increase in resolution, plankton, etc. I don't think the Fulla 2 is capable or resolution.
• HD660S doesn't scale. Even if one prefers the HD660S tonal balance, better off with HD600 with used Bottlehead, Feliks, Amp+Sound, Feliks, etc. and roll tubes to take the edge off.

 

I'd like point out that only two people have sold them.

@Ray bought them initially from the UK and apparently, he was like f**k this shit, not enough of a difference, more different than better, after he heard them in comparison to his modded HD650s. @brencho was an idiot and was telling me via PMs how 263 people he trusted said these were super awesome, and he wanted to believe like Agent Mulder. So he bought @Ray's HD660S. @brencho has already heard 187 variations of the HD580/600/650 from both @Bill-P and I, so he decided to sell it after I pretty much said what Ray said (and also provided measurements as another data point). He also realized he didn't need them, because he's better off putting that $400-$500 into an EC Af fund instead of more sidegrades.

 

Have not heard AEON FLOW Open - waiting for @Hands to send me with Dan's OK? If @Hands finally thinks they are good I'd defer to him. I am not a ortho fan, but TBH, the decision here will probably rest of synergy with the amp used.

HP-3 is a totally different approach because it's tonal balance is fun - a V curve. Lots of bass and a sligthly rising treble culminating with just on the edge mid-treble. Taking tonal balance and treble smoothness out of the equation, the the HP-3 is just better all the way around. better quality bass, more macrodetail, more microdetail (on uber setups). The HP-3 hung in with the HD650 and Atticus in terms of techicalities.

It comes down to what your intended goal (fun, neutral, slightly forgiving, serious, listening, etc.) is and what sources and what amps you plan on using.

 

OK, coming to HD650K now with Fulla 2:

f**k this HD660S. Seriously. Just f**k this shit. Before I go on more, I will say this, AGAIN:

If you don't want to mod a HD650, and/or never plan on getting a good amp (sorry, anything portable / transportable from CHORD, or even Schiit does not apply, nor does the Sennheiser HDVD600 amp), then by all means get an HD660S.
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I will also add this:

If you love the HD650's non-fatiguing forgiving personality, stay with the HD650.
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This is my line of thinking. I went for the HD650 as a modding platform because I wanted it's darker more forgiving presentation to serve as a foundation. Something I could put on and listen forever. The K and M mods were tweaks, specific to different amps. The M mod was wilder funner take on the HD650. Slightly more bass and treble, faster transients, more plankton. It was intended to pair with SET amps and vinyl rigs. The K mod was intended to be a lighter touch, more neutral, less bass, slightly faster transients, more plankton.

From the Fulla 2, the HD660S just has marginally better separation and cleaner sharper attacks than the HD650K. Otherwise it was aboslutely nothing over the HD650K. Absolutely nothing. In fact, the HD650K, possibly because of the dynamat mod, is better at reproducing low level information.

Also, I'd like to reiterate how much "together" the HD650K sounds throughout the spectrum. The HD660's sharper transients are juxtaposted with bass just as murky as HD650's.

In fact, I am starting to realize something very damning**, related to scaling, that I did not notice before because I was listening for technicalities instead of for enjoyment. The HD660S lacks nuance. It's presentation has a louder or more compressed quality - it's flatter and less engaging. The HD650K (and HD600) just have a wider range of volume levels, especially toward the softer sounds. The HD660S sounds like a DR9 recording. The HD600/650K like a DR13.*

I will revisit with the Vali 2 for the rest of today.

*Microdynamics is an area where I've noticed I differ from most people. To me, it is the one most important factor that equates to musical engagement. It's probably related to what Linnies call PRaT. To put things in perspective and better help people understand (or not understand): this is why I LOVE the Pioneer M-22 and DETEST the Benchmark AHB2 and every class D amp on the planet.

**These differences were harder to make out, less immediate with the Fulla 2 compared to with the uber setup.

 

It's important to keep in mind that the HD660S has a little less bass and a littte less treble than a stock HD650. My measurements seem to mirror those of Jude's which show the HD660S to have slightly more mids (which is the same as having less bass and less treble.) than the HD650. The excess bass of the HD650 is going to lend itself to more a murky presentation (all things being equal). I have no doubt the HD660S is faster than a stock HD650 as one of the reasons for the mods discussed on SBAF was to improve the stock HD650's slow or boring transient response.

What I am most troubled by is dynamic compression and lack of ability to convey gradations of volumes on the lower end of the scale. The only thing that I can point to is the 150ohm driver. This is way too much of a price to pay for marginally better clarity* and transient response with absolutely zero improvements in bass distortion. Don't get me wrong, the HD660S isn't bad in this regard, it's just not as good as HD600 / HD650.

*Any advantages in clarity on the part of the HD660S are lost during busy musical passages. It took me a while to figure this out.