Sennheiser HD650

Please heed @Bill-P's warning about the voice coil's fragility, I just snapped mine by accidentally brushing my finger over it while removing the driver unit. RIP and lesson learned.

Sennheiser Canada has replacement drivers available for $88 + $15 shipping.

 

I posted this in the mod compendium thread because I straight up couldn't find this thread when I searched earlier. My bad for that and I apologize for cluttering up that other thread. In the interest of staying on topic in the right place:

My HD6XX just arrived and it's only been 3 songs:

1. Nine Inch Nails: "The Perfect Drug"
2. Nine Inch Nails: "Somewhat Damaged" (from The Fragile - 2017 Definitive Edition)
3. Nine Inch Nails: "The Day The World Went Away" (from The Fragile - 2017 Definitive Edition)

I am absolutely blown away. I didn't think I'd be able to notice much, if any, difference from the modded HifiMan HE-400i I'm using, but holy shit, there is so much more detail--especially little things that are buried many layers deep as Trent is wont to do...I can't believe it. I've got full-body goosebumps and keep tearing up at how beautiful everything sounds. These are absolutely incredible and I can't wait to hear how they sound after burning in a bit.

I love this message board. I can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's opinions and honesty for this shared love. My checking account hates you all, but I can live with that.

 

Comparing the 3 sets of pads I have for my HD650 in preparation for the Dekoni pad loaner.

Set 1: OG pads from when I bought them in 2016 (.8-.9" thick)
Set 2: Brand new HD6XX Pads (1.0" thick)
Set 3: Brainwavz Sheepskin Pads (1.1" thick)

I have been using the Brainwavz Sheepskin Oval pads for the last 17 months and have become very used to their sound, therefore I thought it necessary to get myself back to the baseline of the stock pads.

Switching back to the stock pads the first thing I notice is the big reduction in bass quantity, but increase in bass/mids quality. In comparison, the sheepskin pads bass and lower mids are very boomy and smeared. There is also a marginal increase in soundstage (for what that's worth on 650's).

Switching from the OG pads to the 6XX pads and there's a very slight increase in bass and the treble smooths out a tad, but the pads feel much harder and less comfortable.

Overall the differences between the OG pads and the 6XX pads are not enough for me to deal with the mild headache the hard pads gave me. However, I will be keeping the OG pads on and putting the sheepskin away for a while, at least until the Dekoni pad loaner.

Pics:

OG Pads


6XX Pads


Brainwavz Sheepskin Pads

 

The pads soften over time I think. Just changed pads two weeks ago and they're already breaking in nicely. Only critique is how they cost $50 yet change so much over time, though that sweetspot between softened pads and squished pads feels awesome.

 

I've got a lot of extra dynamat extreme left over if anyone is looking to mod their headphones. Just send me a PM and I'll mail you more than enough. Free of charge.

 

Please excuse my "noobyness" (is that even a word?), but this year is my first year into hi-fi audio and i am still wrapping my head around ... "things".

I have some questions regarding the power requirements of the hd650... The amp i have is an m-stage hpa-2 classic. It drives the cans at adequate volume levels on low gain, with the knob at about 11 to 2 o'clock, but the sound is ... hhmmm, how should i put it? Lacking. I also have a pair of 660s (which sound good pretty much on everything i plug them into), and compared to them the 650's bass is rather soft, lacks a bit of impact, feels slower, and the mids and highs are a bit recessed. Switching the gain to high drops the volume range to about 9 o'clock and i have to lower the windows/audio/video player volume level in order to get higher finesse and range out of the amp knob. The high gain makes the headphones sound brighter, with more forward mids and quite a bit more highs. The bass is more clear (loses the softness), and has slightly more impact. Am i under powering them? I think i read somewhere that doing that can make headphones sound fuzzy and bloated? Is that true? Does that sound like a lack of power, or is my amp acting funny?

I do have to say the cans get to acceptable levels on my phone, and the sound is not that different than that of the 660s (on the phone). My e10k is also out for now, so i don't have other possibilities to test ...

 

I have limited experience with the 650, currently have (an older iteration of) the JAR650, so grain of salt please, though power etc should be the same overall.

I find they do shine with power, but it's not just power I think. There's a certain synergy with some amps that just seem to bring out more in this headphone...that's where people with more experience pairing might be able to chime in (or it might be in this thread if you search).

Your m-stage has 310mW at 300ohms if I found the right link, which should be decent, but there's definitely better out there. I know the 650 seems to like certain tube amps & I enjoy them thoroughly from the MCTH, or even less expensive I remember reading the Vali2 works well also. Others definitely have different experiences, YMMV etc. etc.

 

I have been searching quite a bit since before i posted, but i am a little confused. I thought amps don't push more power on higher gain levels, that being a rather "higher" volume setting. Class A is "class A" (from what i gathered) ... it's always at 100% power output, regardless of whether you are using it fully or half and independent of the gain level (the rest of the unused power is converted into heat ... that's why class A gets soo damn hot). The amp's efficiency starts to drop into AB class once you push too hard and it might even distort ... but that's a different thing? I don't quite get it ...

I haven't been able to find a satisfying answer and i think i am even more confused now ... maybe too much info on a too short period of time.

 

I am by no means an expert or have enough experience with many different amps to give you advice on whether or not what you're hearing is what a properly amped HD650 should sound like, but I too share the same sound signature and volume range with my amp as what you've described. My amp is always set to high gain and I use a decibel meter to settle on 85-85.5 dB with Foobar set to -19.99. I use a 1khz 0dBFS file I created here https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php to do this.

If you run into channel balance issues with the volume pot so low, then I would recommend increasing the volume pot until you no longer get this issue and then reduce the player volume, like you said you've been doing. Just don't lower your windows volume. Always keep that set to 100.

A lot of more experienced users here have said that driving the 650s at a reasonably high to high volume is essential to getting the most out of them since they have such low distortion figures, besides the lower frequencies, and have great dynamics. From my experience, I completely agree.
You have to remember that the 660s has half the impedance of the 650 (150 & 300) so the 650s take quite a bit more volume/power/voltage to actually come alive.

As long as your amp can handle the higher gain and volume without distortion and it makes them sound perceivably better to you compared to low gain, then I see no reason to use anything other than high gain or look for another amp unless you're curious and/or have the money to spend.

 

Oh wow! That's bang on the level i listen too as well! And it set's the pot right down in the middle, so in theory i get the least channel volume mismatch. How come i didn't think of that before? Thanks for that info! That site seems to have many interesting things ... bookmarked it.

Again, wow! Lowering the windows level seems to make things "boomy" and bloat the bass vs lowering foobar's level. Didn't knew that! Any reasoning behind it? Does windows do funny things with the gain?

I have been eyeing a schiit jotunheim balanced, with no dac module, and an m-stage hpa-3b. Both are round the same price here ... Well, schiit is slightly more expensive, and i have to order it from schiit europe, whilst the matrix is available in my local audio store. But the budget ... right now is kinda non existing. Last month i got the ps audio dac, a week ago the hd650, soo ... fcuk! "Audiophoolingaround" is damn expensive!

Might sell the hd660s to fund an amp (or more like try to do so, 'round here hi-fi cans are in a low search), but they do work better at gaming ... tztztz decisions, decisions.

 

I have had HD650 for approx. 10 years now, and my two cents are the following:
Output power is overrated: HD650 is not too hard to drive. Most amp can handle it. Circuitry and synergy matters.
This headphones sounds o.k. from many middle level class transistor based amps. I wouldn't pair it with an amp that is cheaper than the headphones itself. By my experiences, with transistor based amps the HD650 sounds best on high volume. Unfortunately, some of those makes this headphones shouty.
The first jump in sound quality comes in the form of good OTL (output transformer-less) tube amps. There's an uncanny synergy between those and the HD650. Some might find this pairing a bit too warm though.
The second big jump in SQ comes from pairing it with a TOTL tube amp. Those can provide extended highs, firm bass, wonderful middle range, clarity and power at the same time. HD650 can shine with those amps. It's a nice feat, especially if you take into consideration that those amps are usually 5+ times more expensive than the HP itself.

This is obviously an oversimplification, but I think it's enough for a start. Decide your budget, and you will know where to search.

 

You are correct, quality before quantity. I did get sucked into the 8W per channel mentality there, for a second...

I will be looking into a quality amp. For now i do prefer solid states for their low distortion. I'm still in the "neutral sound" phase. I'm not sure i want a tube right now ... But who knows, my local audio store seems to have some woo tubes on stock: wa3 - OTL and wa6 - OTC I (i think i read this playes nicer with low impedance iem's?), and i seem to find some on the second hand market in the country. Might wake up tomorrow and do something reckless ... live life on the edge

 

Based on your stated preferences, I am not sure that the woo amps you mention are going to be up your alley, but if you can demo them first, why not? I can however, unreservedly recommend the Jot with the 650s, it makes them sound as good as they ever have. That said, I have not tried them with the totl tube amps referred to above, as I am not going to be spending $1500+ on a headphone amp in this lifetime. Did sound very good with the Valhalla 2 though, but without the impact, especially in the bass, of the Jot. The Jot is more versatile for different cans /iems too. The latter consideration was why I ultimately sold my Valhalla. If I had more $, I would have both, but if one or the other, I choose the Jot. Good luck.

 

I honestly don't know. I don't believe anything besides bit resolution is effected by the volume control. What you're describing sounds more like the windows enhancements are turned on under your DACs properties in windows. If you haven't already, make sure disable all enhancements is check marked.

 

All enhancements are disabled. I don't know why but the sound tonality seems to be affected. It's not much, but there is a difference. Or maybe i'm paranoid and i am hearing things ... but that's less likely.

 

Could honestly be the Windows Mixer not dithering to mask the lost bit resolution (consequence of reducing volume digitally), causing harmonics and crap to pop up
. Its known to be crap with most operations affecting sound quality (upsampling, volume, ...). @atomicbob even showed a bug where it generates distortion when the level is set to 1/-0db/volume 100. The stance around here is to use analog attenuation (preamps, pots,...) over digital and bypass Windows mixer using WASAPI/"exclusive mode". Most audio player applications would have better digital attenuation than the mixer though, especially "audiophile" ones like jriver and the new audirvana plus for windows.

 

I would recommend the Jot with the HD650 too. I really liked that pairing especially from the balanced out.
I enjoyed the music from Modi Multibit+Jot just as much as I do with the Yggdrassil+Tu-8200.
You might get a bit “better” sound from good tube amps, but you will worry a lot more and spend lot of money on tubes.
By the way I’ve just traded some gear for a WA6-SE with a couple of tubes to roll last week, mainly because I always wanted to compare it to the elekit. It looks nice, I like it with the HD-650, but again the Jot was just as enjoyable.

 

I'm liking the jot the more i look at it ... might get reckless soon =)). Some people say it sounds wide (left-right), but has shallow depth (front-back). Any thoughts on that? I really have nowhere to make an audition on this ...

 

Although I have trouble with soundstage dimensions as recreated by headphones and I think most who are able to perceive such would say the Senn 6__s are average at best at this, anyway, this rings generally true to me. My perception is that the sound tends to be localized to the right/left somewhat to the exclusion of a center image and without much "depth of field" to use a more visual analogy. Otoh, I think it does pretty well with separation of stereo images and instrument placement. I pretty much us it only balanced with the hd6__s so ymmv.

 

The Jot is a great pairing with the HD650s. The 650s can be a bit laid back but the Jot cracks the whip on it. Makes it jog instead of power walking through passages and adds a bit of low end to it. You're right on the that it doesn't really have depth to it but it excels in other areas.

You may have other amplifiers (in the same price range) that will give it a slight bit of depth but you'll lose the speed it and low end it adds to the headphone.

If you want to add a bit of tube flavor the MCTH pairs extremely well with the HD650s.