Spirit of the Market - Guidelines to help buyers and sellers

Welcome to the SBAF Market

Is anyone old enough to remember your neighborhood flea market or swap meet? If you do, you likely remember that you went there to get a deal. You knew it wasn't likely that you'd find "new" stuff, in fact, most of what you found was a little worn but well-loved. Some guys had a "stall" set up every weekend, and you wondered what they'd be selling this week. Sometimes you'd meet someone completely new who had something you'd never seen, but you knew you had to have it! It was OK to haggle on price, but you were face to face and treated each other with respect even when you couldn’t reach a deal.

The SBAF market shares some common traits with the flea market of yesterday. The most important one is that it's about community. Here is where friends buy, sell, and trade with friends. We offer great deals to friends so they can have a taste of excellent gear. We sell "good stuff" to new guys so they can grow in the hobby and save them from the HD-700. We often give equipment to friends in need.

SBAF is not the place to be if you want to sell in high volume. Here is not the place to "flip" goods for profit. This not the place to take advantage of eager newbies. Don't use this place for an auction. There are plenty of places on the Internet for these types of selling: eBay, Head-Fi, and Audiogon to name a few.

There is every expectation that the transaction will go super smoothly.

How about an example:

I sold bioniclephile a turntable.

bioniclephile said that the motor mount rubber band broke in shipment. bioniclephile immediately sent me a photo so that I could see and understand EXACTLY what happened.

That rubber band was old. I ordered a replacement to be sent to him immediately and directly (from the UK) at my expense.

bioniclephile said I could have just given him the link!

This spirit of mutual respect and honor, of smooth transactions, is expected here. It's not about the money; it's about friends taking care of their friends first.

Anything less means you will lose flea market privileges.

Just like the rest of the site, there is an expectation that you will know how to act. If you can't get along here in the market, we'll let you know quickly.



Here are few guidelines to help you when you are buying or selling here:

Sellers
1. No flipping - No one likes a flipper here. Flipping is buying with the purpose of selling for profit. If this is what you're after, great, just don't do it here. That goes for buying cheap here to sell for profit elsewhere... when you get caught you'll be done here.

2. Don't make your third post here a For Sale thread. If you're looking for a place to sell gear quickly and for a good price go to Head-Fi, Audiogon, or somewhere else... Get to know us first before you set up shop.

3. List a price - This isn't an auction site. If you don't know what your item is worth, ask around. There will be exceptions to this, but for the most part, throw a price up there for negotiation.

4. Leave your asking price up AFTER the sale. Don't delete it. Leaving the asking price helps other buyers checking market prices, reduces flipping, and is a decent courtesy. There are obvious exceptions and reasons to delete the asking price, but let it be the exception.

5. SBAF isn't an auction site - If you get an offer for your asking price, honor the offer. Don't start shopping for a buyer who'll pay more. This is common sense stuff, right?

6. If you're selling an epic amount of gear, it probably makes sense to make a single post that lists everything. It keeps the first-page cleaner so folks can shop quicker and sellers can sell faster too!

7. The so-called “Interest Check” - A subject of great debate! For now, Interest checks are OK but don't use them to fish for prices or run a subtle auction.

8. Be sure to report any buyers you have issues with to the head flea @shipsupt

9. Be reasonable with your "bumps."

10. Be sure to post SOLD on the thread and tag @shotgunshane and @jexby.

11. Use common sense. If the deal you're about to try and make isn't one you'd do with a good friend or family member, you might want to take it elsewhere.

12. Please include a photo of the item you are selling and include in the photo a hand written note with your SBAF name, the item being sold and the current date.


Buyer Beware
Markets are not just made up of sellers. Buyers have responsibilities too!

1. Don't crap on for sale threads - You may not agree with a price or a product description, but as long as the seller is not dishonest in his representation leave it alone! If you've got a problem with the listing, suspect flipping, or just need to vent then send a note to the mods.

2. Don't be a perpetual tire kicker. Don't jerk the chain of every seller on the forum if you're not buying.

3. If you make ridiculous offers don't expect much response from sellers. If you can't reach a deal, move on.

4. Once you make the deal, meet your end of it. Pay, trade, provide services or do whatever you promised. We expect the same from the seller. This is the stuff that's completely out of our hands, but we expect our community members to act responsibly.

5. DO speak up for good sellers. Leave feedback in their FS threads. DO let us know about bad sellers.

6. Try to keep the discussion focused on the sale of the item. There are other areas on the site for general discussions.



All the typical legalize should go here. The bottom line is that all we are providing is some real estate on the internet for our friends to sell some gear to friends. The deal and all the risk that comes with it is for the buyer and seller.

Good luck! I've seen some amazing gear sneak through our little market with little fanfare. If you're a buyer, you just might find a treasure.

- shipsupt - head flea in the market (retired)

Apr 9, 2016

 

Restored from web archive.

Advertising for friends and family payment is frowned upon and not condoned by SBAF. We've had too many problems with this in the past. Do NOT advertise for FF payment. Consenting adults can agree to whatever behind the scenes. However if you get shafted in a FF payment, do NOT complain to SBAF mods/admins, other than to alert us to the scammer/shyster/poor trading/selling/buying member.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. There have been a few posts of FF payment recently and our rules have been deleted. Wanted to get this nipped before there is a bad transaction. This was not directed at any one person.

 

Gross and Net are fine to use. It also implies add money for fees and shipping, but as @YMO mentions is overly complicated. We’d prefer you to list a price that includes PP business transaction and shipping or mention how much shipping will be. But again, Gross and Net are fine.

If you do not know the person selling to you, paying a business transaction is the only smart way to go. Conversely, you can be scammed on a FF payment too; with buyer claiming they didn’t authorize it or claiming it was a mistake. Those stories are out there too. A business transaction is the only one with any protections on both sides. We have had our share of bad transactions here in the past and we just want to try and keep those problems in the past. At the end of the day, you are all adults and can agree to whatever but it needs to be in private message.

 

SBAF's line is no friends and family for PayPal or other service. This is our official stance with respect to FS posts. The reason this is being reiterated is because we are seeing FS posts for FF as of late.

Whatever you guys decide to actually do on your own is up to you. However, if you get boned on a transaction or the seller gets abducted by aliens, do not call upon the admins or mods to arbitrate or solve problems that you brought upon yourself. Not using FF is s way that you as a buyer can protect yourself. Shit happens. I've seen UPS drivers flip boxes with turntables and amps with heavy transformers five times over from clumsy handling with the dolly. Sellers will decide to reuse cheap Amazon boxes and packing materials intended for plastic toys for 25 pound DACs. Cheapskate buyers will insist that sellers declare and insure for $10 on $2500 gear for cross border shipping.

We've had to deal with FF payment transactions going completely off the rails with BS forum drama and people getting banned early on in SBAF history. This isn't something that the admins and mods want to deal with ever again.

 

Just more of a pain in the ass with respect to paperwork. f**k you IRS and the 117th US Congress.

 

Collect more tax from poor people juggling several jobs - as these folks are far more dependent upon the gig-economy than high-salaried professionals.

Gotta pay for those green rebates to F150 electric truck and Posche Taycan buyers ya know.


This will a small PIA for me with regards to the Patreon / SBAF community warchest for loaners program. The $600 threshold is ridiculous for what amounts to a payment network / processor. It also forces me to put a certain percentage aside just in case. It also makes it more difficult for me to distribute funds to trusted members to acquire gear on their own accord that SBAF would be interested in. Could be a more serious PIA than I expected...

 

It seems the Spirit of the Market thread needs to be bumped occasionally with reminders…

Today’s reminder:
If you get a good deal on SBAF, you are expected to return the favor if you are reselling in SBAF. In other words, don’t take advantage of this community by getting a great price, then charging another member of the community more. You should resell here for the same price or less. There are plenty of other places to make a profit (Head-Fi, USAM, eBay, etc).

People make mistakes; they don’t take time to read rules and guideline posts; they forget or for some reason just don’t know. Regardless, you are still responsible if a guideline is broken. However, being contrite, hat-in-hand or willing to make things right goes a long way for second chances. You’re trying to be a friend here. Act like it.

 

Quoting this for today's reminder. We've had several mentions of Friends and Family payment I've had to remove lately.
Also, I'll be removing mention of Zelle payments going forward as well. While buyers and sellers can negotiate whatever payment options they want in private message, SBAF is just not going to condone it. There are no protections and it is essentially a Friends and Family type of payment and brings all the same downsides.

 

Bumping this thread to remind everyone about reading this thread before posting their classified.

No friends and family and most definitely no wire transfer in classifieds. Buyers NEED to be offered protection. Should buyer and seller agree to some kind of unprotected payment type behind PM’s, to save the seller from tracking losses or gains for tax purposes, that’s on them. Don’t come to us with your issue when the shit hits the fan. If seller requires you to have no protection, well all I can say is, there’s your sign.

 

While the following is not yet a rule to post on the classifieds, we are making it highly recommended, particular if you are not Friend/Pyrate status:

Please include a photo of the item you are selling and include in the photo a hand written note with your SBAF name, the item being sold and the current date.

 

Friendly bump of this thread. I’ve removed a few references to PP F&F. I will remove as I see them but please save the trouble and make sure you are posting within the guidelines.