Streamers in 2023 - Discussion, Impressions, etc

Yes, please. I would love to hear the answer to this question.

The other fact of life that we haven't mentioned is the fact that software won't play well with others. For example, my main system is in a different room than my RPi server running picoreplayer with local files attached. If I hooked up a Red to my main system with a Google Puck ethernet connection, the Holo software wouldn't talk to the picoreplayer server. I could access internet streams, but not my local files. I suppose, since everyone loves Roon, the way around it is a Roon server but I do so hate subscriptions.

 

The NEO Stream comes with a fancy FMC and has a built in fiber port.

My red is connected to my RT-AC68U in AP mode, actually. I also tried with a Nest puck when I wanted to try HQ Player (doesn’t work with the ASUS, for some reason).

I also have 2 FMCs and a fiber between the AP and Red because the Red is on a balanced isolation transformer and the AP isn’t (and I’m anal about noise and isolation).

 

Curious where the Volumio Rivo fits into this discussion.

 

If lehmanhill is referring to me (Mike), I then have a correction. I normally feed my Holo Red with an ethernet stream (Spotify Premium) from my Asus router > through several DX Engrg DXE ISO-Plus filters at the ends of a long CAT 5e run > an EtherREGEN and then to my Red. There is no conventional PC in my normal signal path. I then output I2S from my Red to my R2R DAC, which has an external 10 MHz master clock attached. However, on the rare occasion when I want to play high-res local files on / from my Synology NAS, I then connect a USB cable from my PC to the USB-In connector on the Holo Red and reboot the Red. It will sense the USB-In connection and automatically ignore the ethernet stream and channel USB streams only through Red's USB processor. I can then play up to PCM 44.1K-768K or DSD 64-512X Native / DSD64 -256X DOP from my PC using either Foobar2K or JRiver to the Red's I2S output - technically still performing DDC. Note that Spotify Premium is currently limited to AAC 256kbit/s. YMMV, but I hear almost no SQ differences between Spotify Premium and local hi-res playback of WAV, FLAC, or DSD through my Holo Red.

Disconnecting the USB-In cable to the Red and rebooting it gets me back to ethernet streaming DDC only.

See a full description of my system in my profile.

 

To be complete - I control internet (ethernet) streaming to my Holo Red by using Spotify apps on my PC, iPad or iPhone. Music continues to play even if I close the apps, proving that no local caching of files is occurring, AFAIK. I do not use the Spotify "Download Files" option.

 

Hi Mike. Yes, it was your system that I was thinking about. Thanks for correcting me. I had assumed that your PC would be in the signal path. That's interesting because it means that Spotify is acting as a kind of “virtual server” with the app on your PC only acting as a user interface. I didn't know any streaming service did that. Just shows how out of date I really am.

There is a bigger question that someone here may be able to answer. Many of the streamers/DDC we are discussing don't use wifi. As I understand it, ethernet has potential noise issues in EMI picked up on the cable and ground return noise conducted from other devices. Wifi has potential noise from EMI/RFI being picked up by the receiver.

1. Is ethernet or wifi better for noise or for the ability to reduce it?
   
   
2. Several folks here are using wifi to a bridge/router, then ethernet to the device. Doesn't this have the same EMI risk on the wifi plus the ground noise risk on the ethernet? Short of @Clemmaster's heroic efforts to isolate the input, wouldn't this approach be potentially worse for noise?
   
   
3. Or does none of this matter because the noise risk in both cases is small enough to ignore? I think I know the answer to this last question, but I would still love to hear the answers.
   

 

That is terrible news! Was it a mercury or a pi2aes? I will get you running. Talk to me!

 

Hi Michael
it was a Pi2 aes that Marv built for me and tried to help me with it. He bought it back from me. Have not bought the Mercury out of concern that I would have the same problems
best,
Josh

 

There's definitely a learning curve which could be difficult if you've never built a PC or messed with software/networking/OS stuff.
However it is basic stuff, I have to say using moOde playing local files pi2aes has been a game changer for me. I have no need or curiosity about getting a better "streamer" I'm just thrilled to be away from a PC and USB.

I have a 2TB ssd I put in an external enclosure on one of my pi2aes using my phone to navigate and it's blisteringly fast navigating no lag at all. moOde gets better and better every update as well. I don't use any streaming services or roon.

 

Fair enough. Best of luck going forward and remember to enjoy the music first and foremost.

 

I am of the opinion that Roon is the best option to avoid the large pile of headaches that comes with UPnP, etc. (And you can use the Pi2AES as a Roon endpoint). Once that is done using something easy like Ropieee, simply have it update and restart itself once a week and you never need to think about it again. At least that has been my experience.

Just want to be clear for anyone reading, that issue is software, not hardware, and the same issues could happen with any streamer.

 

100 PERCENT this.

I hate paying for Roon, but I love not having stupid issues that drove me insane with Moode and Volumio.

 

I hear ya guys but there's no issues with moOde once you know what to do if small problem arises. I haven't had to reimage/reinstall since May. The update feature they have now is solid. One of my PI4/pi2aes setups is bitchier than the other though. However if I save the latest update for when I get the dreaded no output device whatever the hell it is, I just run the update reboot. FIXED

 

thanks for the input, I think its time to get Roon and a mercury, will be saving up for this

 

That does sound much easier, I'd still argue it needs to be in the "never have to look at it again" category which Roon accomplishes (at least for me). I'm glad more recent MoOde has gotten closer to that and Ropieee's ability to auto restart itself regularly (in addition to auto updates) is very useful. Not sure if current MoOde would solve the issue I was experiencing, the clients I used wouldn't see the streamer sometimes ... just because? And I have no desire to mess with it again, that part of my setup just works and I don't like wasting my life on poorly designed software. (But for some reason I work in devops ...)

 

One of the goals of this forum is to keep @Michael Kelly in business because he is awesome.

When you've saved up the money, I'd recommend getting a Roon trial before getting the streamer to ensure you like it. You need a computer to use as the Roon core and then a streamer would be an endpoint. You can use Roon without a streamer with USB. It probably sounds more complicated than it is, feel free to hit me up when it's time for you to try it.

Mostly invovles:
1. Install Roon on a computer (that stays on when you want to listen to music and has access to your music files)
2. Configure Tidal and/or Qobuz if you use either/both of those services
3. Configure a streamer as an endpoint so you can use non-USB digital to your Dac(s)

 

Completely agree however moOde is great for me but I don't use streaming services. Software is definitely the biggest obstacle with these devices for sure. I'm very grateful for moOde.

 

Ahh, yeah, streaming services are a big gotcha in this situation. Without them you don't need UPnP which was a cause of many headaches for me (saying that for everyone's info, I imagine you already know this )

 

A thread on streaming and no real discussion of the WiiM Pro? Maybe I missed it.

 

Let us know how it is