The DAC Advice Thread

@RollingStoned

I've only tried a few things but I owned the zen DAC from iFi (with and without linear power supply) and I find that it's really great and natural with stuff like jazz and sax and voice, but is just soft and whatever compared to the new saber chips in products from smsl and topping. The latter also offer greater detail and are just livelier. And the topping stuff is basically awesome for like half a grand already. So I do recommend especially for rock and metal and EDM.

 

Do you use the volume pot on your Zen dac? Do you set the buffer to the max on the Ifi usb software? I think Ifi dacs sound best with the external power adapter, fixed volume mode, max buffer input and non-gto firmware

 

U

Tried both fixed and variable, with and without a preamp to poweamp... Don't remember the buffer or the exact soft I was using. It's good stuff don't get me wrong, there's definitely some kind of magic to those burr chips, but either I wasn't able to squeeze out everything from it or my preferences in music wasn't the most synergistic.

 

TL;DR I really want a dac that has a headstage, bass resolution, and "naturalness" similar to the gungnir for my office setup. (Ideally at a merciful used market price under $400?) The Ether CX really sounds phenomenal with a DAC that can provide those traits, and it leaves me wanting without that.


So recently I had a gear shootout to determine what my new office setup would be, which included my home setup which won't fit (gungnir + mjolnir):

Amps:

• Schiit Mjolnir 2 (Siemens/Amperex A Frame/Stock tubes)
  
• Massdrop CTH (Siemens/Amperex A Frame/RCA/Stock tubes)
• Massdrop LCX

Headphones:

• Ether CX
• Arya V2 (not used too much here, was mainly optimizing for the CX)

Dacs:

Schiit Gungnir MB A1 (USB)

• Best of the bunch...and the reason I'm posting here. Its too good, as in it makes the Ether CX have the best headstage and bass resolution by a long shot but isn't an option for an office setup.
• Voices are natural, instruments are well spaced.
• The pluck of strings and guttural tones have textured low frequencies.
• The room decay sounds natural and makes the border of the headstage sound natural and deep (lacking an unnaturally definable border).

Schiit Modi MB (USB)

• 2nd best, but leaves me really wanting for more on the Ether CX. The stage is not as big and doesn't have as natural of a border (the ending is a bit less natural in comparison to the Gungnir)
• Voices and bass resolution arn't the best. I seem to be picking up some harshness on vocals especially, or something just didn't sound as human.

Ifi Idac2 (USB)

• Most digititus (4k and 7k seemed harsh, but even when tuned down things still sounded rough)
• Less stage than the modi MB but more than the SDAC
• Bass was maybe a little more textured than the modi MB

Grace SDAC (USB)

• More neutral sounding than the Idac2 and probably the Modi MB. If I didn't care about headstage, this would be a great pick actually.
• Headstage was the narrowest, on the Ether CX it sounded way too closed in. Border of the headstage was a bit abrupt too.
• Bass sounded a bit flat, hard to make this punchy even with EQ boosting the bass

In this shootout, I had some main takeaways from trying almost every combo:

• Headphones had the biggest impact on overall performance (duh)
• DAC changes had noticeably more affect on sound than changing amps (for this specific set of amps and dacs)
• Tube changes were consistent across the Mjolnir 2 and CTH 2 amps, to the point that with the Siemens tube and a minor EQ correction I had a hard time telling the Mjolnir 2 and CTH apart. I remember having a similar experience between the liquid platinum and Mjolnir 2, but kept the Mjolnir 2 believing there must be something greater about it I'd discover in time (lol).

So yeah, the Gungnir blew everything else out on staging, bass resolution, and "naturalness". Can someone recommend a DAC that could do something similar at under $400 used?

 

No.

Edit: unless you get lucky and find a Parasound 1600 DAC for $400.

 

If I were you I'd try to squeeze in an extra $100 for a used Bifrost 2, as it's going to be most similar to what you like about GA1 and is desk friendly.

 

Darn, yeah that's where I was originally leaning but I remember hearing a while back that the bifrost 2 to gungnir was still a big leap in quality. I'm really looking for a sleeper dac that might be good used for the price (maybe an old R2R I've never heard of like that parasound @caute mentioned). Honestly for $600 I can probably get a used Gungnir MB...so at $500 I might as well jump another $100 and try sniping another deal.

 

I mean if you want a Gungnir Multibit get a Gungnir Multibit. In the $500 range, nothing is going to compete, but the BF2 gets close enough.

For the record, I don't believe in "giant killers", which feels like a term invented by people who wanted to feel better about spending less money.

At the end of the day you get what you pay for.

 

You can have mine for that price !

 

God that's tempting...really didn't want to spend that much for an office setup to begin with. I think I need to pass for now though, but thanks for the offer.

I did some more looking into the Bifrost, its definitely the original Bifrost multibit I remember seeing being poorly compared to the Gungnir. The Bifrost 2 sounds like a big step up, maybe that will be what I'm looking for. I think for now I'll passively search for a sub $350 sale of one (will be a while based on hifishark sold history) and try to coast off the modi multibit. Maybe something great at that price will release in the meantime too. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

Did you use Modi MB 1? If yes - USB input is not a good choice. Use a DDC/decrapifier to Spdif. That will take care of the harshness.

Used Eitr could help a lot

 

Pi2aes coax out to Modi MB 1 sounds noticablely better than USB as well, but still no Gungnir. Modi MB from the Pi works great in my "easy listening" system though, don't know if I will even move the Gungnir down there when I eventually upgrade. On the Gungnir front though, I'm planning to make some floating ground xlr to rca cables when I get back from vacation and see if I like it better than the plain SE out.

 

Looking for a DAC that would would be fed by optical for use with a magni piety and an hd 6xx. Trying to decide between used modi multibit OG or modi +. Any opinions? Havent found a ton of modi + impressions but from purr1ns table in the MMB2 thread it looks pretty good.

 

you already went most of the way there, might as well go all the way and get the MMB1 or 2.

2 is a price : perf champ, tho still not on the value level of the piety, but ya, either one will go better w 6xx and piety than modi+ imo.

 

MMB2 is an excellent DAC which I prefer in NOS mode.

But, if you can find one of those close out Liquid Platinum DAC's I find the sound great going XLR.

However, I tried the LP DAC last night single ended and the sound was still very good and easily on par with the MMB2. Single ended the MMB2 had better bass, maybe slightly more dynamic. But the LP was more resolving in a good way and smoother. No contest using XLR.

I can't get past the Piety's treble so I do not think the amp is such a great deal. The Liquid Spark's that were being closed out from as low as $55 to $80 from Monoprice new were the value deal. At full list price I like the Spark better than the Piety.

 

As far as treble energy, it will going up from MMB > MMB2 > Modi + (meaning Modi + has highest treble energy).

With Piety, it is already warm, so can't go wrong with MMB2 or Modi +. I would only pick up an original MMB if you were going to mod it and swap out the op amps. It can be slightly hazy and thick without modding.

 

All your > should be <, I think?

 

I asked a question about this when I first started SBAF and I got flamed because "read the context" and "it's supposed to be obvious", all because one of Marv's posts confused me in the same way.

So not more-than/less-than, more like arrows (but added context just in case).

 

->

 

Thanks everyone, I hate "treble nasties" (I frequently EQs my headphones to be a bit darker, I also happen to listen to some crappy source material every once and awhile) so I think the MMB 1 modded w/2156 opamps would serve me better. Looks simpler than I thought it was to do, I bought a pinecil a while back to do some DIY projects.

But the 2156 is OOS for weeks/months everywhere (including TI direct). The 1656 is in stock but looks like it may be a bit brighter than MMB2 according to some impressions ive read here.

In terms of treble energy then, is it something like:

MMB (OPA2156) < MMB2 < MMB (OPA1656) <= MMB (stock) < Modi + ?

I know treble energy isnt the only important thing in a dac, but it seems other than that and some more warmth down low on the OG MMB there probably isnt a huge difference.