Timbre vs. Tonality

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by roughroad, Apr 3, 2022.

  1. roughroad

    roughroad formerly mephisto56

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    390
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    WI
    Would someone more knowledgeable than myself explain the difference between these (2) terms? Thank you very much.

    Bill
     
  2. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    395
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    DMV
    The way I understand it. Tone is an aggregate term used to describe "sounds". For example, the traits of a note or series of notes played on a scale. This can be broken down into various sub traits, one of which includes timbre (others being, pitch, intensity, duration ect.)

    Timbre describes the qualities of sound distinct from these other sub traits. For example, it describe why a C scale (pitch) played on a guitar with the same loudness (intensity), and at the same tempo (duration), will sound different than one played on a piano.

    Though, I think in the context of describing audio gear, most people use the terms "tone" and "timbre" interchangeably.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  3. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

    Staff Member Pyrate Gearmaster
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Likes Received:
    11,290
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Complex
    In simplest terms:
    • Timbre is why a trombone sounds different than a cello.
    • Tone is why a full-sized concert grand piano sounds more resonant than a cheapo upright, even though they are both pianos and anyone would easily recognize that just by hearing them played.
    Let's relate this to audio equipment, or more specifically, headphones. Every headphone driver has a timbre whether you like to admit it or not. Things like material construction make a huge difference; some people dislike metal drivers with a passion and say it sounds "harsh" or "cold". The timbre of a headphone driver is the reason it has the quality of sound that it does (note I'm talking about the sound the headphone produces in and of itself. This does not take into account resolve, transients, or anything else). This cannot be altered by any mod because this is inherent within the driver. Driver timbre affects every sound the headphone plays.

    Tone is directly related, or even the same as, the headphone's frequency response. This is why I think the unmodded HD800 is a harsh, unlistenable piece of garbage and a properly modded one is actually pretty good.

    Complaints about the timbre of an instrument "not sounding correct" on a headphone review usually relates to frequency response but can also be affected by harmonic distortion and/or various resonances caused either by cup reverberations and pad interactions. A headphone that had a null present in the upper treble means that metallic percussion would sound particularly weird and even non-existent depending on its severity.

    Or put it this way if that's too complicated. Ever wonder why someone who likes neutral to bright headphones dislikes the Utopia? Or why some people can't stand any IEM that uses BA drivers? That has to do with the timbre. Do you know someone who spent loads of time modding a HD800? That's a tone issue.
     
    • Epic Epic x 11
    • Like Like x 8
    • List
  4. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,857
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Really useful answers! And I've been listening to music and hifi of one sort or another for decades. I could not have put it so well, and it was a great revision to read

    :bow::bow::bow:
     
  5. Bourne Perfect

    Bourne Perfect Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I tend to think of timbre as a sort of the microdetail within tone, with both parts forming a natural, realistic sound of an instrument, if that makes sense.
     
  6. SSL

    SSL Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Trophy Points:
    93
    In musical terms, "tone" just means "note" or "sound". But often you'll see "tone" used as a shorthand for "tone color", which in turn is just a synonym for "timbre".

    Some people like to make an informal distinction between the intrinsic timbre of an instrument and the "tone color" produced either from the specific mechanical setup of that instrument or from the musical decisions made on the part of the performer. But at a technical level, they are the same thing.

    "Tonality" basically means "key", as in a musical key. This is an oversimplification, but should be enough to get the idea across. It definitely isn't a synonym for "tone".

    In audio, none of these words have formal definitions and people pretty much just make up whatever meanings they want. For that reason, I never assume vague words like "tone" have a strict meaning, but instead use context to infer the intent of the speaker.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Epic Epic x 2
    • List
  7. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,857
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Tone, in listening terms, is the spectrum of warm to cold. The terms may be non-precise, but the actuality can probably be seen on frequency charts. Somebody one said that engineers and audiophiles hear the same thing, but engineers use numbers to describe it, whereas we use this vague language.
     
  8. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    11,609
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NOVA
    Home Page:
    I know this is fairly imprecise and it's just my humble opinion, but I've tended to equate timbre with resonances and harmonic content, mostly due to material choices and construction, i.e., subjectively described as flabby, fleshy, woody, brassy, steely, tinny, etc. So, when you're talking about the timbre of a specific instrument you should try compare the timbre to another instrument playing the same note, or tone. Tone is more about the fundamental frequency and it's relationship to the rest of the frequency response, i.e., warm/cool, wet/dry, dark/bright. Problems with uneven tonal response can (well, will) be exacerbated by poor timbre. I don't think you can't have good timbre without even tonality, but you can have even tonality that lacks realistic timbre.
     

Share This Page