Turntable advice

Not cheap but EAR 324

 

https://allnicaudio.com/product/h-6500/

 

324 has two phono inputs. Wish it had 3.

 

Hi all. My neighbor has an Audio Technica ATLP120 that is acting strangely. When turned on, the platter spins very fast, much faster than even 78RPM. Speed is not affected by any of the controls: 33/45/78 RPM buttons, pitch adjustment slider, etc. It is even super fast when set to play in reverse.

Any advice on what exactly is wrong and how minor/major the repair might be?

I thought some component in the motor’s power supply might be bad, but I wanted to ask the vinyl nutjobs/experts here for advice.

Here’s the table:

 

hey, it’s a common issue with these tables. The easiest thing to check would be the switch contacts for speed and pitch, spray a tiny amount of deoxit and wiggle them while the table is unplugged and off

if that doesn’t work then it is likely the motor control board has a bad part. It’s a simple enough diagnosis and fix for most electronics repair shops

 

I did a bit of research and it seems like a common problem. The motor and control board may need to be replaced. Basically I don't think it is getting feedback of the proper speed. Some attribute the switches, but I doubt that.

 

@k4rstar @Azimuth thanks for the input! Will pass it on.

 

Hi guys.

I've been going down the Vinyl rabbit hole (finally). I heard a 301 set up in Japan that made me think it would be nice to give it a serious shot. I have a pretty decent collection of old and new vinyl all brand new.

I started with a 401 with a 12 inch wand and a lyra cart.
I'm building a 301 to try get the sound I heard in Japan, with a proposed Thomas Schick 12 inch tone arm and undecided on the cart for this system. The 301 is a few months away from joining the system.

I am really struggling with the high noise floor. Even with really busy heavy tracks if I focus down I can always hear the surface noise, the occasional pop, I feel like I can hear the needle on the groove but not in a good way.
I really enjoy the ceremony of putting on a records, the tactility, the art work but man I am just not achieving the minimum clarity that I REQUIRE to enjoy music.

Any music with a lot of quiet massages is ruined for me.
Is it possible to achieve extremely quiet vinyl system that is anywhere close to satisfying me or am I really just pissing in the wind here?

If the garrards don't do it for me I was going to buy a modern table for 20-30k and if that didn't cut it for me I was gonna give up and quietly make some unpopular conclusions about the vinyl community.

I do hear occasionally some magic in recordings that simply does not exist in any digital version i've heard. But the sins of commission are just far too many with this 401.

I currently have a humminguru, original master sleeves for vinyl care. I was thinking of getting a degritter?

I'm using my ATC sca-2 preamp internal phono not a dedicated tube phono. I will have to sell one of the garrards to fund the tube phono.




Cheers for all advice. I will definitely persist and invest considerably further but feeling a bit disheartened about the venture at this point.

 

I thought my 401 with stock bearing and a DAS plinth was noisy but switching to a Woodsong plinth and a brass bearing made it dead quiet.

 

Are you listening via headphones? If so I find it almost impossible to do the same with my Technics 1200GR. I can hear the needle in the groove without issue on pressings that present as 'pure black' on my VPI Classic in my 2-channel rig. Idler drive is also the noisiest mechanism for turning a platter, but I'm not sure if you're primarily hearing motor noise being translated to the platter and through the record or elements that would be inherent to any drive mechanism. As a general matter I'm not aware of any vinyl aficionados who are principally headphone users.

 

A few thoughts;

--That's a real jump into the analog world. Looks like a nice condition 401, and I've been curious about the Wand for a while. Nice.

--I have a Garrard 401 that I bought from a supposedly good restorer, and it was noisy. It rumbled quite a bit. The music usually covered it, but I still experienced it as a constant agitation. I subsequently took it to a tech who works with Artisan Fidelity and had him look at it and also install AF's upgraded bearing and heavy stainless steel platter (both of which I got used). I didn't hear nearly as much rumble after.

You probably don't need to go to such lengths, but I'd definitely have someone knowledgeable look at the 401's motor. Unfortunately, not every tech really knows what they're doing, so go by rep.

--As you no doubt know, no analog set-up will truly come close to the noise floor of digital. Limitations of the medium, and condition of the records, and all that. But I've heard analog set-ups (including Garrards) sound so clean and hiss and pop free that you'd think they were playing files.

--Might be worth messing with the alignment of your cart and, especially, running various Azimuth tests.

--Surface noise also depends somewhat on the phono stage, and its overload margins. Tube stages can often diminish the volume of hiss and tics and pops.

--Cart matters, too. A spherical tip can diminish the noise. So can a more advanced profile that plays "underneath" the wear and grit in the grooves.

--Cleaning matters, for sure. You've got a good cleaner in the Humminguru, but multiple passes and good rinsing of the cleaning fluid can also help a lot.

--If you want something rumble-free, the various Technics decks always score well on that. It shouldn't be hard to get hold of an SP10-mk2 in Aus, and that lets you use whatever arms.

 

Agreed. Analog is a 2-channel thing for me. It definitely has some strengths, but the drawbacks are there, too, and HPs heighten those for me.

But there's nothing like throwing on a Blue Note side at the end of the day or, especially, hanging out with pals.

 

Thanks for the info. Just for clarity I am using this with 2 channel system, never headphones. Speakers are ATC 150 active towers.

 

I've already organised and paid for a DAS plinth for the 301. If it is not up to speed I'll think about switching plinths I guess.

 

there is a LOT of work to be done on old Garrards to make them as quiet as you're looking for. plus, when you're done swapping in all the modern replacement parts and a big dead heavy plinth; they don't really sound like Garrards anymore

you may be better off with a PTP Lenco. turnkey solution.

 

Fair enough. What I know about the 401.
motor was sent to CTC in the UK 2 years ago where it was serviced and the sintered bushes were replaced. All the springs have also been replaced along with the spark suppressors.
The plinth was built by Leviathan Audio here in Australia, the bearing was also modified by Leviathan Audio.
There is also an Audio Silente idler wheel fitted.

I'll look into the PTP lenco as you know I'm not a great tinkerer and turnkey suits me better.

 

have you tried any other cartridges at home? those high end MC cartridges with the exposed, stiff cantilevers are very unforgiving of surface noise and pressing quality.

you may want to try a Denon or even a very cheap MM like a Tonar Diabolical just as an experiment.

 

I was about to say...the more narrow the cut, the more noise it will pick up. Meaning conical is the least noisy and Shibata the most noisy from what I understand. My university had a tranfer lab that was similar to that of the Smithsonian. It is called the Center for Popular Music and they used a SP-10 with several different truncated styli so it could ride the walls and not get so deep in the groove. It was not for the best fidelity, more for just reducing noise for digital preservation.

A Denon DL-103 seems like it would be a good choice being MC and conical. It has more to do with the shape than the stiffness. Some hi-fi enthusiasts only go up to fine line stylus.

 

From what I've read and experienced, it's not quite that cut and dry. A DL103 or similar usually does reduce surface noise (at the expense of some fidelity), but the more advanced/narrower stylus tips can also get underneath dirt and damage to parts of the groove that may not yet have been played. I'm speaking of used vinyl here.

Most good new vinyl should be fairly quiet. I think I've heard of that Lyra cart being fussy to set up, but I don't think it'd be noisier than other similar carts. I think checking the various set-up parameters might be useful.

And/or trying a tube phono stage like the commonly found EAR boxes and clones. The ATC might be a great preamp with a so-so phono stage/overload margin.

The Garrard sounds like it's received some nice upgrades that shouldn't make it rumble much if at all.

 

I've got a DL103 I've never used. I might have to give it a whirl this weekend.