Turntable advice

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by Falcor, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    if you're still thinking about the PTP...
    https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/l75-ptp-6-slate-bokrand-12.12307/
     
  2. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    Quick question about cartridge loading: how much does it matter and how close do I have to be?

    I recently bought a new Rega Planar 6 and ended up ordering the Ania Pro MC cartridge because I liked it how it sounded the most. According to the specs online, recommended load settings are 100 Ω and 1000 pF.

    I'll tackle the two parts separately:
    • Resistance: 100 Ω seems reasonable, but neither of the the phono pres I currently own actually do this. OG Mani lets you select between 47 Ω and 47 kΩ, and my Parks Audio Puffin lets you choose between 200 Ω and 47 kΩ. Is this a "hit the order of magnitude" situation, or should I consider upgrading to a phono that has 100 Ω exactly as an option?
    • Capacitance: 1000 pF seems insane. I did a quick bit of research and it looks like the only phono pres that do 1000 pF are Rega's own MC phonos. The highest it looks like anyone else lets you select is around 220 pF.
    Would love to avoid rushing an upgrade to my phono, but I also want to have a good time with the new table/cartridge. If hitting the capacitive loading is important, I guess I'll pick up the Rega MC phono and call it done.
     
  3. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I would use the puffin on the 200ohm setting and enjoy music

    If you want to tweak without buying a whole new phono stage, you can solder up a set of female to male RCA connectors. 220-470ohms in parallel with the input to reach an effective 100ohm load with 200ohm on the Puffin. Add a capacitor of around 780pF in parallel for an effective 1000pF of loading.

    If you hear a difference it will likely be related to the sound colouring of the resistors or capacitors you chose and not the material change in loading values. Likewise for changing phono stages completely.

    https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/cartridge-loading-plugs_topic1246.html
     
  4. lehmanhill

    lehmanhill Almost "Made"

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    I completely agree. When I have listened to cartridge loading, both resistance and capacitor, I have found the difference to be small. I suspect that the lower you go with cartridge impedance it may become more noticeable, but those cartridges are usually out of my price range. You've got a good set-up. Enjoy it.
     
  5. dBel84

    dBel84 Friend

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  6. ogodei

    ogodei Friend

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    @supertransformingdhruv , at the risk of being far too simplistic:

    For an MC cartridge you should only be concerned with resistance / impedance. Realistically capacitance wont have an effect on a MC until it hits silly numbers. Don't even worry about it. ( And to clarify, any number a manufacturer posts with a 'k' after it, like '47K', is capacitance. Not applicable for MC)

    The correct setting for impedance on a MC is whatever you prefer, but a very valid Rule of Thumb is 5 to 10x the internal impedance of the cartridge. In practice that usually works out to a range of 30 to 100 ohms.

    Your Ania Pro has an internal impedance of 10 ohms, they suggest a 100 ohm impedance setting. So, rule of thumb.

    What happens if you tweak impedance up or down? It acts like a very non-linear tone control:
    • Lowering impedance will lower the bass output, thin the sound, move the stage away from the listener, narrow the imaging \ focus
    • Raising the impedance adds bass and fullness, widens the sound stage
    • At very high settings you get a very non-linear over emphasis on high frequencies and a muddy sound over all
    Within the Rule of Thumb range these changes are subtle but noticeable. It's really a preference thing, and what you prefer can be affected by a particular albums' mastering. I mess with impedance from album to album to suit however im feeling

    If I had to choose a phono-pre with a single impedance setting I would go for 50 or 100 ohms. If you want to experiment with what you have use the Mani and switch between the 47 and 200 Ohm settings. Listen to the difference. You could also set it to 47 ohms and add a small resistor in parallel across the phono stage inputs. Start with one 47 ohm resistor and you're at 94 Ohms, about where Rega recommends.
     
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  7. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    Thanks everyone, that really helps. Maybe down the road I'll play with tweaking impedance as a "last few percent" kind of thing, but it sounds like I'll be in good shape with my current phono pre.
     
  8. Souldriver

    Souldriver Almost "Made"

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    I was on my local record/cd shop and saw this in the back, a decent looking Technics SL-1200MK2

    I have some vinyls but mostly from friend's bands so no real collection but it would be nice to have something. I dont plan on going deep with analogue, but it would be nice to have something.

    The equipment manager wont be in until tomorrow but i plan to give him a call and ask for details.

    I have watched a few videos on what to look for and will be buying in person but anything specific i should ask? Anything i should 100% know. The price is a suspiciously low $250 so i expect it to be busted.
     

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  9. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I bought my SL1200 for $300 off a DJ dumping all his gear, so price is low but not out of the ordinary for someone who may have bought it used to begin with. My best advice is to check that everything functions properly before buying, but keep in mind that A LOT of support/parts can be obtained through KAB: https://www.kabusa.com

    If it's your first TT and everything works fine, just grab a premounted Ortofon 2M Red or Blue and a used Mani and practice setting up the cartridge/fiddling with things like overhang, vertical tracking angle, vertical tracking force, and anti-skate.
     
  10. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    it will probably work and sound OK if you have no experience and there are some things you can check in person, but depending on the age of the table and how it was stored it could have some serious issues that would degrade its performance.

    Gently lift the arm and wiggle it up and down and side to side. Feel for friction, play or looseness.

    Dirty pitch slider, it will affect speed stability even if it's zeroed. Can be cleaned with fader/switch cleaner.

    Gently apply resistance to the platter with it running, it shouldn't slip or lag from a little finger pressure.

    these articles may help you:
    https://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com/2016/04/turntable-setupstarter-kit-ear-mc4.html
    https://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com/2012/07/talk-vinyl-technics-sl-1200-mk-2-part-i.html
     
  11. SofaSamuraiX

    SofaSamuraiX Almost "Made"

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    Best thing about an MK2 is that they are a tank. Second is how simple it is to get them up and running and third is they play records pretty well! And they scale with some simple upgrades! I bought two 1200 MK2's for 300.... So ya.
     
  12. Souldriver

    Souldriver Almost "Made"

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    They had it under another big cassette player so im not keeping my hopes high. Im watching tons of videos so i can see what the articles are talking about. I hope it works out or maybe i can shave some off if its that beat up but is promisingly repairable.

    And they have the cool vintage silver look to it!
     
  13. Souldriver

    Souldriver Almost "Made"

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    Yep, i read their site too and there about an hour away. Its nice to get an item that has tons of support aftermarket too.

    Itll be fun to screw around with it if it works out and maybe it becomes a mod piece too.
     
  14. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I had the chance of buying one of these back in the day. I went in to buy a slightly more expensive Dual (not a very special model) and the salesman, who was a decent guy, strongly advised me that the Technics was a much better turntable. I insisted on the Dual and was probably wrong. Of course, I had no idea that this Technics would be a classic, decades later!

    By the way, the cost back then? I went into the shop with 100 GBP in my pocket.

    Anyway, so I didn't get direct experience with this deck. But I'd say that, if you are a beginner, or if, like me, you'd rather just play records than obsess over finicky adjustments on a super-sensitive deck, this would be a good buy for you. Could even be your turntable for life!

    Others have given the practical things to check. Let me just add (if you are a TT beginner) that you almost certainly do need to connect the earth terminal on the table to the one on your phono-preamp. Else you'll get more buzz than music. And you might need to connect those to an independent earth: I used to use a convenient nearby copper pipe. Don't fret about with what: any old bit of lamp cable or somoething will do the job.
     
  15. lehmanhill

    lehmanhill Almost "Made"

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    If you are checking out the turntable in person (which I recommend), download one of the free turntable rpm/wow apps to your phone. These apps use the phone's sensors to measure how the platter spins over time. Look up the turntable's specs for wow to compare to the measurements. I suggest taking along a roll of painters tap to lift your phone above the center post on the turntable although the app will work just sitting to one side.

    Below is an example.
     

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  16. Souldriver

    Souldriver Almost "Made"

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    Turns out they wanted $650 but said theyll do $600 for the confusion. It was looked over by a "local guy" they use. No dust cover and the heigh adjustment is frozen (common and curable), everything else seemed to be in food working order. The cart was an ATP-2xn. Im kind of split on it, $500 and lower i would bite. $600 is fair but also the used market is at a crawl so its hard to bite.

    Though this week he is getting in an empire from the son of someone that used to work there. He doesnt know the model but he is going call me when its in and itll be interesting to see what it is. A lot of the empires are revered as well.
     

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  17. SofaSamuraiX

    SofaSamuraiX Almost "Made"

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    Without the dust cover, that is too much, though it looks like it is super clean! And the VTA adjustment isn't all THAT simple!
     
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  18. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    There should be a retaining stub at the back of the counterweight - that looks to be missing also. I agree, $600 seems too much.
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Unless you have, somehow, a dust-free home, either get a big reduction or pass on this. A turntable without a dust cover is just not practical. And, whilst you might be able to make one or get one made, it would never have the convenience of the spring-loaded hinges on the original.

    Sad... but look for another deck. :(


    PS... 600 USD! :eek:... How I wish I had bought that Technics back then!
     
  20. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    That is not even the correct rubber mat. That mat came from an automatic turntable. It has the rectangular cutouts for the little record size sensors.

    With the mat and no plexi and not even a decent cart, $600 is too much.

    The other thing you have to watch out for on these is watching out for how bad the main tonearm bearing is worn out. To test, balance the arm to float, run the anti-skate all the way up, then push to the inside and it should snap back to the resting position rather quickly. If it does not return or gets there super slow, then the bearing on my M3D was worn out. My bearing was worn out and why I went with a Rega RB250 arm.

    Other than that, the biggest weakness in the SL-1200 MK2 or M3D is the tonearm wires, but those can be replaced. Not super easy, but it can be done. They upgraded the tonearm wire for the MK5 and beyond.
     
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