Why didn't Fuji ever make a full frame camera?

Discussion in 'Photography and Cameras' started by rhythmdevils, Apr 29, 2022.

  1. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    And almost nobody can tell my pic missed focus if they are looking at it on their phone!

    But, as cameras, I just find phones unusable. So I'm unwilling to lay out for the really-good-camera phones, even though the best camera I have with me, quite a lot of the time, is the only camera: my phone.
     
  2. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    If I did not already have my Pentax K5 mark 1 I would have gone either Nikon D700/750 or something similar from Fujifilm.

    I kind of agree with the first post of the thread. Even in the 21st century I want to take pictures as if my digital camera feels analogue. Why? Controls, simple as that. Features and gimmicks can help but the moment I have to dive into too many menus I no longer enjoy the process.

    If ever I need to go compact camera or smaller than DSLR, Fujifilm is top of the list for me.
     
  3. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    I also prefer having a few dials. The GFX 50R has them and they unfortunately eliminated them on the current production models, I assume because they add cost.

    Nikon Zfc and Df are probably the most analogue looking digital cameras outside Leica something. Fuji still has APS-C stuff that kept dials
     
  4. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    That's it exactly. UX is everything. I drove a friend's Tesla, intending to buy it, but couldn't stand everything on the screen…the user experience sucks compared to physical knobs, at least for me.

    Same for cameras. The Fujifilms have enough buttons that I can assign to the functions I need that I can take photographs instead of traversing menus.
     
  5. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Not to mention the color cast that Instagram and Facebook add to the images. Have you noticed this? I have to repeatedly export multiple versions guessing at color adjustments until it looks right in the Facebook/Instagram apps. They make images much yellower and sometimes greener than the original. Drives me nuts.

    Anyways, camera phones have gotten quite good, especially at just getting focus and sharp images wherever you take a picture and looking good with low noise even in low light. But the color science is not there. My 14 year old Nikon D3 has much much much better color than my iPhone 12 Pro. Especially in mixed light situations, the iPhone 12 Pro picks up all kinds of crazy over saturated color casts that I struggle to get rid of. I never had this issue with my D3. Not always accurate color in mixed lighting but easy fixable in post with just the color sliders.

    I suspect part of the problem is that the iPhone target audience likes punchy, contrast-y saturated colors since they're all photo newbs. But not all of it.
     
  6. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Sony's menus are infamous, and they are never going to give us a firmware upgrade to the latest version, because they just don't. They expect us to buy a whole new camera!

    Anyway, APS-C a6500, and I seldom have to menu-dive. The two or three things I constantly need are on buttons. But oh how I wish I could have one more dial with the option to directly set degrees-K colour temperature

    I detest all touch controls in cars. It started with the radio, and has now extended to the whole car. Anything that takes eyes off the road is dangerous.

    I groan when I am asked to take a group shot at the end of a concert: a line of maybe a dozen people, with different-temperature lighting on different parts of the line. Somehow, phones seem to be able to sort all that out. although I don't think they can rival the portrait shots I get during the concert.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm still sitting on the sidelines before I commit to spending money on lenses. I sold off of my Nikon lenses a while back because I got sick of Nikon intentionally nerfing mid-line models (this has changed now because of new entrants, but too little too late, and F Nikon - seriously - when their DSLRs AF for the longest time were worse than my F100), and also because every Nikon I've own usually breaks requiring service at the Nikon service center, where when it comes back, I get weird stuff like high ISO banding, which then requires another trip to the service center, where it comes back slightly better, but not as good as brand new, so I gave up on them.

    It's a conundrum.
    upload_2022-5-2_10-9-56.png
     
  8. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    You don't even need to, my midranger (Mi 10T Pro) has a friggin 1/1.3'' sensor that shits on iPhones.

    ... and also my old EOS 600D, if sensor quality is the only relevant metric.
     
  9. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    I'm pretty sure you are already doing this, but make sure you're applying a color profile (i.e., SRGB) to the photo before uploading it. (I don't really use social media other than SBAF, so dunno if this'll fix it…they could just be doing crappy stuff with your images)

    And I agree with you on the iPhone photos. For me, they're grossly over-sharpened (I can usually spot any photo taken with an iPhone). I was wondering if that's still the case on the pro's; I opted for the mini because I like the smaller size. I wish they'd make a mini with the nicer camera setup. And turn down the damn default sharpening!
     
  10. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    I forgot to mention the original reason that Fujifilm stated that they made APS-C instead of FF: they put forth the idea that their APS-C had the same picture quality as FF. That was probably true when they came out with the X-Trans sensor. Now with 50Mpx FF sensors, maybe not as much.

    Counterpoint is that I'm quite happy with 26Mpx. I don't really want bigger files. I already have 100GB of compressed photo storage.

    ---

    On Fujifilm menus: use them to set up your preferences, assign buttons, and set up the Quick menu!!! Then a press of the Q button gets you what you need, you rarely if ever need to use the full menus.

    I think the XT4 is on-par with the rest WRT autofocus, and they've opened their camera interface spec so software companies can use it to do tethering, etc.

    Finally, I have to wholly disagree with the statement "limited on telephoto lenses". There are quite a few. I have both the 50-140/ƒ2.8 (75-210 for those in FF land) and the 100-400/ƒ4.5-5.6 (150-600), along with the 1.4x teleconverter (which fits on both of those zooms). All are excellent. And there's the new 70-300/ƒ4-5.6 (105-450) [prolly hard to find due to worldwide chip shortage]. There are additionally the XC lenses that people love (the XC50-230 is liked for a full-range travel lens); those have plastic bodies but still contain the great Fujifilm optics.

    You may have to wait for the end of the chip shortage, and the new Fujifilm bodies for the wife issue. I'd heard they're adding back a PASM dial. (The X-E4 already has P on its shutter dial). As long as you shoot raw+jpg, you'd get something usable on P with the flexibility of reprocessing the raw file.
     
  11. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    And here I am thinking about just ditching my Sony A6000 for a Canon 5D Mark II. Let's see - full frame, 21Mpx, full 1080P at 30fps w/mic input, lots of manual things and stuff without having to dive into menus (like the later Canon's), and lenses galore.

    I do like the Fuji grain, it is very film like. However, as I look back at some of my digital photos, some of the best looking shots are from when I had an original 5D. It was old then when I got it. 12MPx, full frame, no video, no dust removal, and the AF was dodgy, but the colors and controls were great. The Mark II fixed most of that and I kind of see why it became SO popular.
     
  12. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Didn't agree when they said it back then and don't agree now.

    The "film grain" arrangement of pixels on the X-tran sensors helps a bit with anti-aliasing but softens the image and produces wormy artifacts when sharpened. I feel they generally do worse than most equivalent bayer sensors all things being equal.And it goes without saying the newer 45-60 mpx+ FF sensors are superior technical performers in basically all respects.

    The Fuji X system still benefits from excellent optics and Fuji color. If you don't pixel peep, the images do look really good.
     
  13. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    For those who find iPhone photos over sharpened or saturated, have you tried using Apple ProRAW? Or just plain shooting RAW with an app like Halide?
     
  14. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Also worth noting that the continued lack of compressed lossless RAW on Sony mirrorless bodies is an infamita. I think the only one that has it is the A1 at $6.5k, which is ridiculous.
     
  15. winders

    winders boomer

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    Nikon designed and Sony manufactured....

    Right..... the Nikon Z9 is probably the best professional mirrorless camera available and Z7 II is not chopped liver.
     
  16. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I shoot ProRaw and get really awful hues that are over saturated. Skin tones are all over the place and often look really fake. And even with Lightroom tricks I can't always get them to look right. I never had this problem with my Nikon D3 or D3s, in much more mixed light environments it would give me great files that I could at least get looking perfect in LR.

    I think Apple thinks it's market likes saturation, which is probably true.

    I don't know what all this Nikon hate is about, unless they've taken a dive recently. Before mirrorless their cameras were the best on the market for FF IMO. Best color, and generally the best look to the images. Not to mention best ergonomics. They handle like cameras not electronic devices.
     
  17. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I find that straight RAW shots from an app like Halide on the iPhone tend to be less saturated and also require more post processing to look their best.
     
  18. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I have ProCamera which I think is the best camera app by far and when I shoot raw in the app they turn like 2 stops darker in the photos app. I don’t know why. I can watch it happen after they get imported. They look as shot and then one by one the app does something to them and darkens them to the point I just got sick of using it. I just use the stock camera app now and set it to overexpose by a stop for every shot and it’s much easier. (I don’t know why but it tends to underexpose and as you probably know all the tones in a digital image are towards the highlights)
     
  19. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Sure. Except the Z9 just came out and has a production run of I read 3,500 units. It's not going to turn the tide on their mirrorless market share, which I think is single digits.

    And yes, Z7 II has a good reputation I believe but it is only a couple years old and we're talking a decade of neglect. IMO, the Z lens line-up seems to be very milquetoast. I've been blown away by the results a Sony A7RIV with even some of the modest E-mount primes can get. Does it feel like a Nikon? Nope, but Sony color has gotten better, and so you're forced into deciding if you want image quality or usability. That's a frustrating choice for the consumer. However, I read Nikon's new strategy (besides diversify) is to focus on selling more lenses at a higher markup, so hopefully that will mean they start doing something more impressive.

    If by dive you mean they failed to predict market conditions and keep competitive in their critical primary sector resulting in the closure of a factory where 2,000 people lost their jobs.

    And to be clear I love Nikon. The D850 is the smoothest shooting high mpx camera I've ever handled. It's a joy vs the GFX. It's aggravating they are only getting serious about mirrorless now or they'd be in better shape.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
  20. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Nikon could have made a mirrorless system camera with decent viewfinder with a DX-sensor in the time Olympus was still marketing the Pen-series.

    I had an EM-5 mark 1 with the 20mm pancake lens. Imagine that kind of body with a DX-sensor or slightly bigger FX-sensor and decent manual controls. Fujifilm was not that big in those days. Add F-mount lenses with legacy glass (including the old MF lenses) and Nikon could have taken the market.

    I was and am so fed up with Nikon that I went with Pentax in the end. The Nikon F100 and F90X were such awesome cameras but when digital became the new normal Nikon became lazy. The fuckery with legacy glass was the final nail in the coffin for me.

    Nikon lost the plot. I do not want to waste a penny on that company.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2022

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