ZMF Omni (vs. TH-X00 and Nighthawk)

The Nighthawk certainly takes getting used to. The bass extension and texture is very impressive. When I switch from the NH to the 650 them back to the NH I can see why people say it's recessed in the mids. I kind of describe it as there's this dreamy glow of smoke and when you go inside it you hear everything. Voices can sound floaty and dreamy. It's a unique sound but I don't think most will give it the time of day after a quick first listen.

 

Just wanted to clear up some confusion, I don't think that the Blackwood or Vibro are the better headphones in technical regards over the Omni. My preference for them is largely due to the ZMF house sound that I love. I spoke with Zach and will be getting a Blackwood Omni in to compare to the Walnut Omni, so there's a chance that my opinion on the matter may change.

I owned the HD650 and wound up selling them. I bought an HD600 and find myself preferring those. Just my $0.02.

 

Purrin it occurred to me that some (not all) things like Soundstage depth/width/height/size , imaging, instrument separation, comfort, treble extension, etc may help even further in understanding the headphones. Sometimes the above mentioned are make or break aspects.

While I think the Blackwood Omni would fair better in the bass dept and Macro Dynamics, I def can see what weaknesses I hear reflected in the graph such as micro details. I wonder if what you guys are calling macro dynamics, to be an aspect that contributes to the Omni seeming a bit forced on busy songs.

For some of the above mentioned aspects I believe the Omni would fair better as they are some of its standput features.

Before the Thx00 it was hard to find a headphone that spread out, split up, and placed the musical information in such an enjoyable way all while keeping a solid foundation and believable human voice. ZMF filled that void. Also the ZMF Omni sounds heaps more open and less cavernous than closed backs available because of the semi open design. Now the thx00 is here at an easier reach. If it does all of these things it can make the Omni less unique. But still valuable as I place a bet that the thx00 still wont be as convincing on the human voice. The TH600 I had simply needed a smoother treble, and more lower mids.

I am super curious to know how much of a difference in Soundstage is between the thx00 and th600. If the thx00 is right the aspects I wish were on the graph and made the mentioned improvements then Damn. Im a loyal ZMF fan but my Omni needs to be shaking in its boots. The TH600 layed out instruments like no other sub 1000 dollar headphone could. Particularly in Soundstage depth and width. Through vintage tone controls (some folks hate em) it was the second most fun I have ever had after the he6. But that treble... I cancelled my Thx00 for a liquid carbon to match my system and would like to keep the Omni and compare it myself with a HD650 as well. I just haven't heard the hd650 above a crack and speedball so I doubt id have the same results. The hd650 can't lay out instruments that well but its tonal balance smashes the whole gambit of options.

 

Cool! Thanks for these details and references

 

From your own cited post, doesn't it actually look like the difference in older vs newer HD650 has more to do with the pads than black/silver driver units?

There's that image again, comparing the old HD650 to the new HD650, compressing the new pads down to be the same as the old pads. Those differences look small enough to be mere manufacturing variance.

 

f**k yeah that spider chart is awesome and easy to follow.

Is there a post that summarizes your HD650 mods?

 

oh my gosh Kriss Kross! dang I remember them.

 

For me, the Nighthawk is the most inconsistent headphone I've tried, and by this I mean, one minute I think it's end game, and then next I feel it's just mush. It seems to be very dependent on the recording/type of music I choose. Given, I'm mainly using it with the DF Red, or even the Dacport or Dacport Slim. Perhaps a more powerful, more neutral amp might change some of the inconsistency, but I don't have a good SS amp to try it out with right now. I'm very interested in the new pads AQ is supposedly working on, but it's taking forever to release them.

 

For me trying the Nighthawk at a meet was one of the biggest WTF moments. I put them on, some music was already playing, and I literally took them back off and checked that the cable was plugged in. I just couldn't believe that the mids could be so absent. So I took them back off and moved on...

 

Hey fellas, new to SBAF, but certainly not to audio or head-fi (don't get me started on what brought me here instead of staying there...)

Anyway I figured I'd jump on this train. The Nighthawks are to these ears, pretty easy to listen to, but not necessarily something to write home about. I will say that they are probably one of the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. They are also very easy to drive and isolate fairly decently without sounding like a typical closed headphone. They don't have any wow factor for me though. If I was going to spend that kind of dough on a semi-closed option, I'm going secondhand Omni all the way.

And speaking of Omni, here's a comparo I did between the Omni and Alpha Prime: http://www.head-fi.org/t/809560/the...rspeakers-alpha-prime-and-zmf-omni-headphones

To quote myself: "Honestly at this price point, rather than one headphone being directly superior to the other, we're just looking at different preferences/flavors. The ZMF is the more relaxed of the two, while the Alpha sounds more incisive. Neither are particularly extreme in any area of the frequency response, so basically my recommendation is this: if you prefer a slightly darker, easier-to-listen-to sound a la LCD2, Nighthawk, HE1000, etc. I think the ZMF is going to be your guy. If you like a more linear tuning a la HD800, Ether, T1, the Alpha may be your choice. Both are very capable headphones that really have managed to take the ol' T50rp and turn it in to something extraordinary."

 

Glad to see you in our neck of the woods, @JoeDoe. However, please take the time to introduce yourself before continuing to post.

 

So maybe this thread will or wont have its title edited.

The Omni name is taken by another headphone company. It could be that ZMF had it first or vice versa but Jlab (not jds labs) wants to claim it as unique to them and wants ZMF to change.

Jlab Omni


Momentum
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The above look similar no?

I so want to rip on em but if there was anytime for the Omni to change names, atleast its when they have new gear on the horizon. Or is that bad? I don't know I'm not a business man. They should have a sound shoot out and the winner keeps the name.

 

The Omni is a nice sounding headphone but it's so overpriced IMO. The bass sounds sloppy to me, lacking definition. I found the mids to have a nice lushness to them but I also heard some grain and there's some weird splash somewhere up top.

I think the Nighthawk beats the Omni in all areas especially when it comes to bass, resolution and finer details. I used to find the vocals pushed back but that's because when I look at how the recording was made the vocals are pushed back. From an engineering point of view they are quite accurate. Music listening it's all preference. I find the Nighthawk to have some of the best vocal emotion along with the 650 and LCD-2.1. There's a lushness and a hint of slower decay that makes them sound a bit dreamy and haunting but I love it. The bass is the best I've heard for impact, extension and texture the larger driver Planars generally have the extension but lack the impact so the NH is that perfect balance for me.

I find the NH to compete well with my HD650 and HD800 technically, I find the Senns to dig down to get those fine details out a little better. If the 650 had the bass and the lack of grain of the NH I'd be in heaven!

 

The NH is muddy as hell. Good techs but that balance sucks. I didn't have to eq the Omni. The vocals sound like they were recorded under water on the NH but w/ eq and they came alive. The Omni def has its issues w its t50 driver but id take the omni over the NH any day and even the Alpha dog if I couldn't eq... but like you say ymmv.
Good thing the NHs like eq.

 

It's strange, the splashiness: I hear only on few songs. I do hear some siblace if it's dominant in the recording, but it's sooooo tolerable. And I thought I couldn't stand any siblance. Vocals sound soooo niceeee. Ah I could listen to these all day if they were only as comfortable as the hifiman he-400i. Alas, nothings perfect. But this is closer than anything I've heard previous in terms of pure pleasure. Guitars sound so nice although the hifimans had more power and crunch to the distortion guitars.

Thanks @gbeast for helping choosing the amp/dac set up! These sound like they were dead before I plugged them into my current set up.

 

The NH are not muddy! It's your other headphones that are bright and artificial as hell

I bought a brand new pair of NightHawk 1 month ago and they are one of the best headphones that I have heard/owned. (I have owned : LCD-2/LCD-3/LCD-X/HD650/HD600/RS1/RS2/HF2/TH-X00/HE-500/HE-400i/HE-560/AD2000/W3000anv and many more)

In fact, I got rid of the HD650 after spending only 1 week with the NH.

Spend 1 week with just the NightHawk and trust me you will have a hard time to go back to your other headphones.

 

I have spent more than week with the NH's. Two weeks w them and actually the Kennerton Vali got wayyyy more head time. It has the same issues as the NH but to a much lesser extent.

Lets get objective. This is not me defending the Omni but criticising the Nighthawk because its a shame that a headphone with so much liquidity and low distortion be tuned like that.

Mud, warmth: From 200-500hz

I love you just not your Nighthawk
Measurements actually show the Omni to have a dip in the mud region and fullness in the midrange.

 

NH muddy? I've heard it all now haha joking aside even directly after my HD800 the Nighthawk sound clean, a bit warm yes. The 650 sound more muddy than the NH in direct comparison.

A graph isn't going to tell you what a proper balance especially how you are judging it. The NH actually shows me how my mix sounds unlike most headphones. The HD650 is probably my fav headphones of all time but the NH is cleaner, better extended in the highs with a much deeper, textured bass. The NH is the most recording and source dependant headphone I've heard.

Also that's the first time I've seen the NH's RAW measurements that is pretty flat. They are not perfect some might be put off by the cup reverb or the warm tilt but I thonl there's something natural and effortless with them. They remind me of a more refined and balanced D7000 but with better sub bass and lower distortion. If I could change one thing about the Hawks it would be that I'd want a sigjtly smoother treble like the 650.