Sennheiser HD660S Speculation

+2 to this. I can already barely tolerate the Anax HD800, so a more balanced version of this (factory, non-mod) would be an instant "sell off a couple nice pens and buy the shit out of that" product for me. Plus some nice tubes of course, just because

Huh, props. I completely missed those (then again, I rarely go on HF nowadays— the drama here is more intelligible, for the most part, and way more fun!). If I'm understanding them correctly, subbass distortion sees some small improvements but there's a bit of weirdness in the midrange that might be due to the HD700 driver not playing very well with the 6-series housing?

 

Thinking of the 660 from a business point of view, I can't really make sense of why bother? It seems so close to something they already have and people like at a price point accessible to more people than the HD800(S). I can't help but think they're really trying to tier their stuff more going forward since the 650 and 800 are both technically very good but offer different flavours.

But I'm a Geologist so what the hell do I know haha

 

I think it's because the HD650 has been around for a while... and now its street price has gone down to approximately $250 - $300-ish... and then after Massdrop, it's like $200, so Senn can no longer charge $399 for it, and they want to charge even more ($499).

Solution? Come up with a "new" headphone and charge what they want ($499) for it. And push hard for it to be like an "improvement" of the HD650, so now they'll have Massdrop liquidating HD650 at $200 for them, and they'll be able to sell a new headphone at $500 for at least the next few years.

Makes perfect business sense to me.

 

Missed it for the same reason. So looks like they improved the distortion in the subass and the treble, but increased the distortion in the mids? Is that not the part of the spectrum that people are most sensitive to distortion? Or am I missing something? Or are these values so small as to be insignificant? In which case I'm having a problem seeing what the big deal is supposed to be other than more profit for Sennheiser's bottom line. If so, a very disappointing development in Sennheiser's business model. Are they really trying to dump the 700 drivers on the market with a can that may not be an improvement to the 600 series but costs $500? Again, speculation. This is starting to smell like over-cooked cruciferous vegetables to me.

 

Well, if that really is the case (i.e. worse mids on the HD660S— WHY?!), then in a way, yay!

I say yay because the newer toy might drive down the price of the older pair even lower than the HD6XX drop did, with FOTM people claiming the 660Ses are "categorically superior" and peerless at its price point, worthy of the legendary HD650's reputation. I've got HD650s with me on loan from a friend, wearing them this very moment in point of fact, and I feel these complement my Fostexes quite well, really tempted to pick a pair up for myself and KISS-mod them (friend understandably didn't allow me to mod his cans, haha)! Or I could just go straight for the HD800s, I suppose....

Then again, this sets a worrying precedent for Sennheiser in that they might very well start releasing updates for the sake of updates alone and lose that persistent drive to innovate and insane German over-engineering that put them on the map in the first place. IIRC, the HD800-uppercase-S has worse bass distortion than the HD800? Meh, I'm conflicted.

Also, had no idea what cruciferous vegetables were until now. Huh.

 

Distortion looks better. It's definitely an improvement in the bass and the distortion rise follows the increase in frequency response compared to the HD650 at 1kHz. Should be interesting to see how these actually fair in a direct comparison with ears I trust.

 

Is it just me, or does that sharp turn at 65Hz look a bit suspicious...

 

Anyone remember that guy who stacked an HD800 on top of the HD650 while playing both simultaneously and said it was the best thing ever?

 

Didn't somebody measure them together as well?

 

As much as I respect and enjoy Sennheiser's products, don't forget that "Because we can sell it and make money" is always on the table for them as far as reasons go.

They might have done a market segment analysis and found consumers who are ignoring the HD600/650 simply because they've been around for so long, for example. Or maybe it's because you can find them for $150-200 used all the dang time.

Reasons for its inception aside, I'll just have to wait to hear it for myself, and then see if I want to swap gear.

 

So, today I went to my local audio dealer, and heard some of the very interesting things.

1) Unfortunately they probably won't carry HD660S unless it is 'revolutionary'. They told me the sales of Sennheiser is completely went cliff, and planning to move away from Sennheiser.

2) So I asked them which brand sells well, and the answer is.... Grado. Not even Audeze.


I don't have much self-esteem, but especially after visiting the dealer I just feel uneasy. I used to have/listened to all Grados came out ever, from SR60 to HP1000 to mythical PS-1 to Alessando ones. And in the end only Grado I could tolerate is HP1000 which I still have.

I just don't get it how people could enjoy that ear piercing treble and bass nearly completely made of distortion. Does new e-series better than previous ones? I should listen to their recent stuffs again....

 

Apparently that's air, microdetail and resolution. Or something.

 

Grado is incredibly well entrenched in the dealership network, and their sound is well tuned for older ears who lack upper FR hearing but have fat wallets. They carved their niche into the market early on and have held it reasonably well ever since. Even in the face of the internet age, they don't falter because their market isn't the millennial who reads reviews. Their market is the bloke who goes to the store and asks the saleperson what headphones are best.

So picture a guy who walks into the store. He's got speakers at home, but wouldn't mind trying out some headphones. He's tried a few lousy choices like a Beats or Senn HD280 (maybe from his wannabe dj days) and they were all meh, but hey he's open minded and is willing to give headphones another chance. From his limited experience, headphones are boxy and muddy. He tries the HD600, but while cleaner it doesn't wow him. The HD800 is nice, but whoops sticker shock hits him and he backs away. So out comes the Grado. It's got that retro vibe, and hey the SR60 is under a hundred bucks in a hifi shop? Well geez that's worth a shot! And you know what? that super open sound and sizzling highs are what grab him. Those highs that most of us find piercing are not gonna cause fatigue in the few minutes that he's auditioning in the shop. He's sold, and at a bargain no less! Fast forward a couple months, the guy is now feeling slightly unsatisfied. He's chasing that new high. Maybe moving up a tier is the answer... oh hey they have wooden models? Wood must obviously be better than cheap plastic, and hey it matches with the speakers so that's kinda cool. The new toy syndrome kicks in, and all is well. At this point the ears have acclimated to the Grado sound, and another listener is firmly entrenched.

 

I think it is more of the fact that Sennheiser is heavily focused on their own country and Europe than America. I went to Germany several months ago, and I visited two Hi-Fi shops. They all had Sennheisers and Beyerdynamics. Though I noticed Focal and Audeze have penetrated the market well.

 

I think this may be the contributing factor to Sennheisers disappearing from physical shops (at least for their "hifi" models). The enforced pricing in the stores is ridiculous. All the HD5## and 6## models are prolific enough that the online market reflects their "true" value, and no one in their right mind is going to drop $500 for an HD650 at BestBuy when a two minute google/amazon search shows like-new boxes for under $300.