“Mofi-gate”

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by recstar24, Aug 1, 2022.

  1. YMO

    YMO Scatologically ribald obsessive

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    8,892
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DUVALLL-904
    Cause they know that vinyl buyers have $$$$ and most do the FOMO mentality on their releases. Back when I was doing vinyl, the modern pressing plants weren't close to the QC as the ones from back in the day. That and paying $30-$60 for a new vinyl press on thicker vinyl was killing my wallet on top that my local record stores are now selling shit like Boston for $15 in VG quality (and they are selling for that price aka people are buying for that price). While the CDs were a buck a pop.

    And that my friends is why I will not go back to vinyl.
     
  2. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Likes Received:
    813
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    This is so dumb. My Mobile Fidelity "pressing" of Folk Singer is a 30-year-old 16/44 CD, and it sounds FUCKING GREAT. (Thanks, @baldr.)

    The MFSL vinyl probably sounds good, too, regardless of how it was produced. If the sound was worth $125 when people thought it came direct from tape, the same sound is still worth $125 now. Isn't it?
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  3. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Well "worth" is mostly perception, so it can mutate depending on circumstances. It was "worth" $125 because people paid that, but they paid it because they thought it was something it wasn't. Now that they've found out the truth, the "worth" can mutate.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  4. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,300
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Oh, if only things were that simple! :D

    My older CDs of records in my collection matched well. It is only in more recent years that I have been disappointed when buying a CD to get a "clean copy" of the much loved but crackly album (I don't have the ears/patience/setup to digitise for myself any longer) and preferring the album --- or rather my digitisation of it, I don't play vinyl itself any longer.

    Is a beautiful picture any less beautiful if it turns out to be a forgery? Probably not, but it will certainly be less valuable.
     
  5. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,291
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    In one sense, yes. In another, no. It would be like buying a beautiful, expensive diamond that you are assured is a mined diamond, only to later discover it’s actually a lab grown diamond (which sell for less despite being genuine diamonds). It’s a deception, even if the final product is still a diamond and still beautiful.

    Similarly, AAA processing is considered a premium process worth charging a premium for. You can say the sound is the same until you’re blue in the face, but just like the diamonds, there is a difference in the marketplace between AAA records and digitally sourced records and selling records under the pretense of AAA when they are not to the tune of $125 is seriously shitty.
     
  6. recstar24

    recstar24 Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Chicago
    This is definitely one of the better analogies I’ve read regarding this issue. Appreciate it! Beats the standard cliches using cars or wine that’s for sure.
     
  7. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Likes Received:
    813
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    But only because there exists a more-valuable genuine article. That's not the case here.
     
  8. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,291
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Most of the albums MoFi has released have AAA versions available, either from other audiophile labels or standard label issues. The obvious exceptions are ones where the masters are digital to begin with.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  9. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Likes Received:
    813
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Oh, maybe I've misunderstood what the MoFi albums were supposed to be (I'm not a vinyl guy). Are you saying that these other-label AAA versions actually were made with a one-step process, stamped directly from father discs?
     
  10. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,291
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Ah, I see what you mean! Most likely are not, although processes like Direct Metal Mastering achieve the same kind of thing. There is some debate as to whether the “one step” process actually improves the sound however.
     
  11. Gazny

    Gazny Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    May 11, 2020
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SoCal
    How many steps is a One Step again?
     
  12. YMO

    YMO Scatologically ribald obsessive

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    8,892
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DUVALLL-904
    Step 1: Open your wallet
    Step 2: Feel good about your e-penis when you blab about your overpriced purchases online.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Epic Epic x 3
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  13. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,291
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Step 1: Work with studios to procure the original master tapes of an album
    Step 2: Make a DSD copy of those tapes
    Step 3: Actively lie to your consumers while stamping an SACD to vinyl and throwing it in a hideous large box
    Step 4: Profit!
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Epic Epic x 2
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 2
    • List
  14. Beefy

    Beefy Almost "Made"

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Canada
    The lying is unconscionable, but surely a lot of the anger felt by people is best seen in the mirror. Everyone so happy with these while they thought they were satisfying some mystical nervosa. This is the sort of thing that gives audiophiles a bad name, and gives really strong ammo to ASR.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Epic Epic x 1
    • List
  15. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sector 8023 of the Third Quadrant
  16. recstar24

    recstar24 Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Chicago
    And that’s the kicker - we truly cannot determine whether the one step plating process is definitely better then the traditional 3 step plating process. It’s like audiophiles assume this more wasteful, highly inefficient one step plating process has to be better sounding because…audiophiles. I’d be curious if mofi even bothered checking their test pressings, because if an issue was found, you’d have to recreate a lacquer. At least with the 3 step process, you can go back to the mother and physically fix more often then not whatever the issue was and create a new stamper.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  17. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,291
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Nah, I’m going to say the issue is squarely with MoFi choosing to lie for 15+ years. Again, this wasn’t just lying by omission, which they actively did do, they also replied to queries saying their chain was AAA and produced promotional videos with multiple people in the company saying their mastering chain was all analog. It’s straight up fraud.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 2
    • List
  18. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    [​IMG]
     
    • Epic Epic x 8
    • Like Like x 3
    • List
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,300
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    So far as the art analogy goes, no. A forgery remains a forgery, even if the original had been lost.

    A forgery is not the work of the original artist. Furthermore, it has not been described as simply a copy, but is something intended to be fraudulent.
     
  20. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Likes Received:
    813
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    When I said there was no genuine article, what I meant was that -- as far as I know; correct me if I'm wrong -- there is no release of any of the One-Step albums that was genuinely produced with a chain that looked like this:

    Analog Tape --> Master--> Stamper --> LP

    So there is no "original" to be forged.

    MFSL seem to have misrepresented their process, and that probably makes them bad people. But are consumers actually buying their discs because of the process, or because of the great sound regardless of the process? Imagine that MFSL had the ultimate close-to-the-original-tape "zero-step" process: one that magically cut 10,000 identical LPs direct from analog tape. Would 10,000 households pay $125 for even that process, if the discs produced by it sounded no better than other releases of the same album?
     

Share This Page