APB: Schiit Ragnarok 2 Loaner

Discussion in 'All Points Bulletin / Be on the Look Out' started by ChaChaRealSmooth, Nov 20, 2019.

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  1. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF Gearmaster

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    ***Original loaner thread here, Marv's status update here***

    It's come to our attention that the Ragnarok 2 loaner unit was tampered with somewhere along the way. See the above linked status update from Marv for details.

    Due to the situation, it has been decided that the tour for the Ragnarok 2 will be shut down. To the members who came later in the tour, I apologize because the situation isn't fair to you.

    The tour went through 4 members before the unit was sent back to Schiit and the problems were discovered: @zonto, @Scott Kramer, @StageOne, and @dubharmonic. Until the situation is resolved, you four are banned from any loaner programs and F/S privileges. If you are indeed the person who has tampered with the Rag 2, a PM'd confession to me detailing how you opened the Rag, where you made a modification, and why you did will suffice in releasing the other three members from their bans. We will not put you on blast; this will remain confidential.

    On that last note, please do not martyr yourself. Being the "silent hero" accomplishes nothing.

    I would like to remind everyone here that participation in the SBAF loaner program is a privilege. Modification of the gear in question is NEVER ACCEPTABLE! You do not own the loaner unit, so treat it as such and do your best to send it to the next person in the same condition it was received. If anything, ask questions. I will not bite, nor am I adverse to answering PMs. Going forward, the threads on loaner expectations and shipping have been updated.

    Lastly, I'm leaving this thread and the original loaner thread open, but please do NOT start shit-posting and start playing the blame/shame game. You all are better than that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    A few thoughts:
    • No one is going to get into trouble for this. There is an internal investigation ongoing; but personally, I don't think fingers should be pointed at anyone. Whatever happens, we will never have a preponderance of proof, and whatever we discover will never be public. It is what it is, and my thoughts are to look forward, not to look backward. This is not to say that another admin won't do a CSI thing themselves and figure it out. I may set the tone, but I won't micromanage individual initiative.
    • As such, all persons on the loaner should be presumed innocent. I know that a few members reached out to me concerned. I will say that no one on the loaner will be blackballed from future loaners. I do think it's a testament to the community that members felt guilty by the very fact that they were on this loaner. No need, but how people are willing to "own it" demonstrates the goodness of people here. People who know me well also know that I only take things at face value. So please, don't worry and don't stress out.
    • In terms of looking forward, there are lessons learned. I should have taken the time to inspect the loaner myself personally before sending it out. I plan on buying a bunch of tamper evident stickers from Amazon for all loaners in the future regardless of brand.
    • I honestly do not believe this will happen again, at least not for another two or three years. The loaner being ended rather than being rebooted is my way of making sure it doesn't happen again. This technique of punishing everyone is similar to one employed by my gym teacher in high school. In archery class, a few bad actors decided to go "English lowbowmen" by launching arrows into the field of the adjacent junior high. No one copped up to it, so everyone was punished. This punishment technique ensured that such behavior never happened again. Keep in mind this was the early 80s, so times were different. I'm old school though.
    • We tend to forget that people do get hurt. I don't think I've ever seen Jason been so hurt before. He got pissed off this time for sure, but I knew he was hurt inside. He's always been the calm dude, really good at taking a lot of punches. You guys have to understand why tampering might set him off, considering the bullshit he's had to deal with at ASR, e.g. dudes sending Amir Valhalla 1 amps with broken tubes on one channel, borked DAC measurements, Bifrost 1 (without the USB circa 2011), etc. For those who are not in the know, there are people out there who passionately HATE Schiit and would like to see nothing less than them buried. Envy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  3. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    After reading this, I say that it's only fair that that guilty party should be made to stand 100 yards where, once blindfolded, we all be all to go "English Bowman" at the guilty party. Seems rather juvenile but fair nonetheless.
     
  4. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    I wasn't on this loaner since I dropped out right before it started, but if there's some kind of donation set up going to Jason for his time/cost of repairs, please count me in.
     
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  5. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    No need for this at all, it's just part of the business.

    I will say, in response to Marv's comments about haters, I'd encourage anyone who thinks we have wronged them to contact us so we can try to make it right. Emailing [email protected] will get you fast responses, and it's not like I've hidden my email either—[email protected] I may not provide a personal response but I will definitely make sure you're connected to the right person, pronto.
     
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  6. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF Gearmaster

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    If you really want to support Jason, buy some nice Schiit gear.
     
  7. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    I have bought lots of schiit gear over the years. Have to say that Jason's attention after the Bifrost 2 release was exceptional and I'm loving the bf2 BTW. I don't get the hating on schiit though. Great company, great products and great prices. What's to hate? I have nicer gear than I would normally because schiit sells gear at reasonable prices.

    Speaking of schiit gear, I really need to pickup that Asgard 3. With all the good press and the fact that it would stack nicely on my DAC, I really need to grab one.
     
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  8. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    Speaking of “Schiit gear,” Schiit really needs to start selling some shirts, etc. I’m a pinko who doesn’t enjoy repping brands on my clothes. But I proudly wear a ZMF shirt, and I’d do the same for Schiit. It’s not about liking every product (though you’ll pry my Yggdrasil and Rag from my cold, dead hands); it’s about what great customer service they have, as exemplified by Jason’s post above. Starting from when I was a noob and sent dumb, basic questions to Schiit to more recently when my Rag1 had problems, I’ve had nothing but prompt, kind responses from Schiit, and I don’t think it needs to be said how rare that is in this day and age.
     
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  9. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    It's a shitty thing to happen just the same, I was surprised and sorry to hear about it when I read the thread. The loaner program here, though I've yet to take part, is one of the unique things that make this community awesome and it always sucks to hear about things like these happening.
     
  10. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Not trying to make this into a kumbaya thread about Schiit, but Jason, Mike and team have clearly worked very hard on building trust and a great reputation amongst their customers and within the industry. IMO, they demonstrate and epitomize integrity. So I can understand how this situation would certainly hurt.

    Not to mention all the hard work that went into creating this product to make it as good as it can be - it sucks that all we are left with is the impressions of a broken amp.

    My major concern with cancelling the loaner is not as much for its participants at this point (loaners are a privilege and trust was broken), but more for Schiit’s reputation and their potential customers (me included), since we won’t have an opportunity to read the impressions from our Friends of how the real-deal Rag 2 truly performs (at least not to the degree we would via a loaner tour). Loaners are also awesome for the readers, as well as the participants.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  11. pure5152

    pure5152 Friend

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    Totally agree here. I remember reading the rag 2 impressions from the loaner (1, 2): harshness in the highs, transformer hum, off timbre. This really surprised me, because when I heard the rag 2 at can jam socal in multiple booths with multiple headphones, I experienced none of those issues: it was super quiet with no hum/noise whatsoever, nice even midrange, smooth highs.

    I can understand why schiit would be pissed. They don't spend much money on ad revenue, and so probably rely a lot on word-of-mouth impressions, with sbaf impressions being a crucial part of this (usually shows up on first page of google results). No doubt guests/members read and trust the impressions/reviews of trusted ears here to be accurate so they can inform their own purchasing decisions; when these impressions/reviews are based on a broken/possibly tampered rag 2, it gives people a false impression of what the rag 2 is/sounds like, and turns away a bunch of potential buyers unjustly.

    I wonder if the people on the loaner who posted impressions about it should take down their impressions, or at least add a disclaimer at the beginning explaining this. Is it dangerous if it's left up, and people read it and take it for face value? I can see random possibly people taking the impressions out of context and be used to spread misinformation, but I may be overly pessimistic here.

    EDIT: Just want to add I don't hold anything against the people on the loaner who posted the impressions. They just were trying to write what they heard honestly, and I appreciate that. I'm just worried about how other people will read the information in the future if they just look at those impressions and no context.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Everything gets left up and nothing will be deleted. The situation has been explained. People will believe what they want to believe. Everything which has been brought up has already been duly considered (and slept on) by SBAF management. Schiit is already aware of any possible blowback from SBAF's decision to kill this loaner. Really, it's lose-lose. Lose if we kill the loaner. Lose if we reboot it because then it would seem that we are protecting Schiit.

    The decision stands. Loaners are a privilege, not a right.

    "This is why you can't good things". Neener, neener, neener. Let this be a lesson and let's move on.
     
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  13. MrTeaRex

    MrTeaRex His head's not fat, he's my brother!

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    Did someone pee in it? 'cause we know who that would have been.
     
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