Audeze LCD-R Review and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Oct 2, 2021.

  1. Beefy

    Beefy Almost "Made"

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    Thinking more along the lines of straight microphone cable versus twisted pair. Twisted pair tends to be higher capacitance.

    Although phase does seem more likely. Just wondering out loud.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Super Friend

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    Put the pads close together and try to stick your ear in there. If the phase is inverted on one side, bass will be sucked out. It's possible the headphones could be wired the wrong way or the stock cable is meant for the wrong-way wired headphones.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  3. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    The stock OFC cable is on the left, the Forza OCC cable is on the right. The black/copper color pattern in the stock cable is just black and clear sleaving AFAIK.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    Thanks for the tip. I just put on a bass heavy Bob Marley track and plugged in the Forza cable and tried this, and didn't notice the bass changing as the drivers got close together.

    Tyll used to find many vintage orthos wired out of phase and the owners didn't seem to notice so it seems like that must be a subtle thing subjectively. This makes me literally feel dizzy. I want to start mooshing my face up into funky shapes like those photographs of people's faces wrapped in Saran Wrap that went viral a while ago.
     
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  5. memoryerror

    memoryerror Rando

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    I would take a multi meter to the old cable and the new cables. A conductivity test on each pin should show you if the phase is inverted. Unless the new cables are not for the Jotunheim A.
     
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  6. Beefy

    Beefy Almost "Made"

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    No, you can't see inverted phase with a multimeter.

    The only way you can potentially tell without cracking open the housing is if you can see which way the driver moves on a large DC signal. Not recommended.

    Edit, yeah, sorry, I see what you mean. Disconnect from headphones, of course you can see that. I was thinking fixed cables, but of course we're rolling cables. Disregard my lack of sense and sleep.
     
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  7. scblock

    scblock Friend

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    Could you play one of the phase test tracks, like one you would use to check if both your speakers were wired in phase, like this one? Absolute phase may not be easily detectable but one channel out should be, right? Works if I wire one speaker backwards anyways.
     
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  8. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    Can you just check with Audeze or Schiit to see what the pin out is, and confirm with Forza that they wired the cable the same way?
     
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  9. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Your description almost sounds like a short across L/R that cancels out the main frequencies and all you're left with is the echoes (which happens all the time with processed music where the main recorded stream is mirrored across the L/R channels).

    I'm almost certain that the RAAL pinouts are different. If Audeze followed suit, then that would be the culprit.
     
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  10. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    I bet you this is it. Could be pin mixup because the pinout expectation is different due to the female 4-pin XLR connector on the Jot-A amp?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  11. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    The Audeze LCD-R cable pinout follows the Raal pinout, so one channel is inverted if the cables are made the "standard" 4-pin way. I'll look it up shortly and report back.

    Edit: Raal pinout is as follows:

    1: R+
    2: R-
    3: L-
    4: L+

    Standard 4-pin XLR:

    1 - left channel +
    2 - left channel -
    3 - right channel +
    4 - right channel -
     
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  12. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    It’s fine to use a standard Audeze/ZMF cable with the LCD-R on a regular amp, but if you make a cable for the Jot A, one channel needs to be inverted.
    I assume your female-female adapter doesn’t do the inversion?
     
  13. Beefy

    Beefy Almost "Made"

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    So left/right switch and one channel inverted. My hearing sucks, but I'm pretty sure that would completely fuck me up!
     
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  14. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    A few years back @ohgourami had a channel inverted on his hardwired HE-6 that not many people picked up on.
    I heard it immediately because I’m one of the weirdos that listen for ‘head stage’ :p
    It didn’t fuck me up though, it just sounded very left-right and weirdly big.
     
  15. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    Thank you @schiit ! I wish I contacted you about this it didn’t even occur to me that it would be something so official. I was sure it was a back alley thing at Audeze with old school mobsters involved where Audeze was like “fuck we’ve got 67 headphones wired backwards. [whisper] Just wire the cables backwards and no one will know”

    so just to be clear since I’m spending a couple hundred dollars on these cables, if I give Forza that pinpoint that Schiit provided the cables will be fine? Case closed?

    @Clemmaster I can imagine this being heard as just huge soundstage. But it makes me feel like I’m being sucked into a vortex.

    thank you for all the input! :bow:
     
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  16. deafenears

    deafenears Rando

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    Yeah, I'm sure they've made many cables for RAAL SR1a users so would know the pinout/termination.

    Another option would be to get an adapter so you could reuse your existing Audeze cable(s). Something like from https://nemal.com/products/nemal-xlr-4-pin-female-female-adapter, add a note on your order:

    “RAAL Pinout”
    Label Amp End

    Headphone end 4-pin F XLR --> Amp end 4-pin F XLR

    Pin 3–> pin 1
    Pin 4–>pin 2
    Pin 1–>pin 4
    Pin 2–>pin 3
     
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  17. brams

    brams Rando

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    I'm a little surprised more tube amp manufacturers have not confirmed their amps would work when asked directly. I guess with only 67 units made and @rhythmdevils, @purr1n and myself already accounting for at least 5 of these, few have even heard or care about the LCD-R. Manley would not confirm their Absolute headamp will work even though Audeze has an Absolute and the battery powered Woo WA8 apparently works quite well.


    I tried to clarify this in my post over at head-fi ...

    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/introducing-the-audeze-lcd-r.958720/page-79
     
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Super Friend

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    Phase reversal of one channel can occur at any of the following points:
    1. Software player / OS (possible, but unlikely)
    2. Hardware to DAC (possible with i2s or simple misconfiguration)
    3. DAC (possible, but unlikely)
    4. Amp (extremely unlikely)
    5. Headphone cable (quite possible - I've seen this often a few times)
    6. Headphone wiring (possible)
    Go through most likely scenarios and isolate cause.

    We will never hear anything from most companies, especially ones that have catered to two-channel such as Manley. The problem is that nobody knows WTF this really means. No one has seen a 2-ohm headphone before much less specialized amps with low voltage output but massive current output.

    Woo can answer it easily because as long as it's transformer coupled, it will be really hard to blow up. Ask a tube for more, and the filament that is exciting the electronics stays doing the same thing. Whereas transistors and especially opamps in plastic packages (in headamp configurations with minimal heatsinking) will explode.

    I will get voltage sensitivity figures in a bit.
     
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  19. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    I already have a standard female -- female adapter from them which is how I figured out that I didn't just have one mis wired AliExpress cable.

    I just emailed them to see if they could make a custom adapter with the RAAL pinout on one end.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Super Friend

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    Audeze LCD-R
    Attack and Decay Envelope for 10-Cycle Burst Response
    upload_2021-10-10_8-30-37.png

    The LCD-R has one particular Audeze trait, and that's the overshoot in the initial cycle in the 4.8kHz burst. It's a defining trait of their sound, a good edge, a nice attack. Note that the LCD-XC (and LCD2C) exhibits this too, but in a stronger way. There is also a nice square edge of the 1.5kHz burst and a small initial overshoot at 500Hz. Perhaps this explains the LCD-R's snappier transient attack.

    One interesting thing to note. There's a dip at second cycle of the 4.8kHz burst. Normally a rise, even a small one, here equates to harsh, grainy, sandy timbre in the highs. Instead we have a dip. I do wonder if the dip here helps explain the perceived smooth highs or perhaps the mellow or dull sound that some owners have noticed.

    Finally, if there is a weak spot, it's perhaps the bass. The bass doesn't seem as snappy as the rest of the band. There's a hint of a plateau in the first two cycles of the 50Hz. I wonder if this explains it. This measurement is still new. In time, perhaps we can better correlate patterns to what we hear.

    Audeze LCD-XC (for comparison).
    Attack and Decay Envelope for 10-Cycle Burst Response
    [​IMG]
     
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