Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Marvey, Jul 20, 2021.
probably wouldn't bother you much because isn't the clear MG pro also recessed in that area?
Was thinking of different products. But good point. I largely constructed my guess that way.
In my own measurements, I've been finding HFM orthos and Verites (ZMF) had upper-mid and lower-high recessions. Not exactly same pattern tho. HFM has a dip around 2k but that dip doesn't reach to 3khz upward. Also less extent ([email protected] compared to 1khz level) than 8xx. On the other hand, Verite has more substantial 3 octave dip around 3-4khz but treble energy is overall lower than 8xx. In both cases, recession is subjectively noticeable in vocal presentation particularly when side by side compared to others. But I didn't bother recession at all eventually.
Extrapolating from that, I'm thinking what really matters to me is how such recessions harmonized with surrounding frequency areas, and how I hear those freqs in real music I enjoy. So still some chance I hate it. But hard to tell until I get my own hands on it.
Anyone familiar with this audio reviewer/website? Quite the attack on the Drop HD8XX. Honestly it sounds like ASR levels of hate.
Well. @Crinacle is right here if you want to confront him... in any case I think everyone's entitled to their opinion. I think that EQ to make the HD800s sound like the HD8xx, if reliable, would be pretty telling...
He just disagreed with how 8xx was claimed by Drop. He listed specific points he didn't like -- with specific statements where he's coming from. Nope, I don't think it problematic at all. That's rather an usual disagreement which we always see in this hobby.
You (or we) don't have to agree with his take. No problem at all.
Ive got no problem with the review or reviewer, im just unfamiliar with him. Whenever i read a review with such a strong opinion, I try to get a feeling for the person/site, to determine how much weight to give their opinion. Especially when its a product im considering for purchase. Figured folks here are more knowledgeable than I am.
Perhaps my statement of "ASR level of hate" gives the wrong impression about my question.
I thought it was a well written review. I just dont see many reviews with such strong opinions, unless I come here or a few years ago when i paid some attention to ASR.
Go to the "rankings" page on his site to get an idea of his preferences. That should give you an idea if his review is useful to you.
Im having a hell of a time finding the actual rankings on his page. I see lots of writing about his methodology, grading & scoring, but I cant see the actual list.... Browsing on mobile via chrome.
Thanks, I can see the rankings through your link, but couldnt by going to the main site page and following the links myself. I'm likely just incompetent.
Yeah I also disagree quite often with Crinacle, but that is fine. I am sure a lot of people disagree with my audio findings too.
These days I mostly care for community impressions (like the different threads here as a whole) and my own findings.
Let's see how the HD8XX turns out. Looks very interesting. I definitely like the FR response more than stock HD800
I'm am in the same "wait and see" bit right now. For the longest time, the 800S was my "endgame" headphone, mostly from the comfort + capability + price combo [comfort is a bigger deal for me with odd ears]. The secondhand market on both the 800S and the 8XX is going to be an interesting read.
This is why I don't assign grades. I liked the HD8XX. Given the choice between HD8XX and HD800S, I'd easily take the HD8XX every time. Both have flawed tuning. However, I will take mid-recessed over any kind of brightness every time.
I think part of the disconnect is that his preferences are not clearly stated. I'd bet $10000 dollars right now that he similarly dislikes the frequency response of the ZMF Verite Open and Closed (probably gave them C or D grades), two headphones where I can acknowledge the less than neutral voicing with dips in the mids, but which I love. I too can have ASR levels of hate with headphones that broadly lift the upper-mids, even in a minor way along the lines of Dr. Sean Olive's Ph.D. magikal target. The more aggressive Olive IEM target sends me into a murderous rage.
I think what it comes down to that over the years, my approach will provide a caveat: if you like this, then you may like this. Back in the CS days, it used to be that if I didn't like it, it was dogshit. I don't think readers found that helpful or useful.
I can actually write an algorithm that analyzes the FR and CSD, and tell me if I would like the tonal signature or not. Peaks from 6-9kHz would be heavily penalized. Lifts from 2kHz up would also be similarly penalized. Dips in the upper mids less so. Narrow peaks from 2-5kHz and 10kHz up with would lightly penalized, depending upon their amplitude. Bass roll-off below 50Hz would also be slightly penalized. Dips from 200-800Hz should be moderately penalized. Narrow midbass boost would probably be ignored. Massive bass boost would be moderately penalized. However, at the end of the day, such an algorithm would be self-serving and kind of egotistical - because it does nothing for anyone else. Folks like @rhythmdevils, @ultrabike, are very close to me with respect to tonal signature preferences - but even then, we differ.
I think I may have already said this; but if not I will make it clear since I've had firsthand experience with the HD8XX and owned the HD800 for years trying to make this work. If you like and have no problem with the HD800S, OG HD800, or modified variants, then stick with that. I think those who like the Audeze tuning will prefer the HD8XX.
At the end of the day it always comes down to this, for both owners and reviewers: what's actually stuck around. (The HD8XX will be added to my small collection of headphones).
Maybe I should assign grades, just to piss people off!
Grade A: Amazing (amazing how awful this sounds)
Grade B: Butthole (only a butthole wouldn’t like this great sounding gear)
Grade C: Correct (this gear needs massive correction to sound even marginally good—avoid)
Grade D: Deficient (this is deficient of any major issues, everyone should hear it)
Grade E: Earworm (I’d rather have worms in my ears than hear this again)
Grade F: Fine (damn this gear is fine)
Sorry, bad phrasing on my part. I've not purchased any of the above, but did spend an hour or so with a pair of OG HD800 many moons ago; enough to appreciate what I was striving toward price-wise. Just haven't gotten the... motivation?... brass?... balls?... to actually put the cash down on one of the options.
But yes, the best pair of headphones is always the one you like the most (right now).
Drop announced 8XX will be shipped in the first first half of September.
Finally, we’re excited to announce that pre-orders are on track to ship nearly three months early. Instead of late November, DROP and Sennheiser are doing everything possible to ship these in the first half of September. These are ambitious efforts, but Senneheiser and Drop’s logistics organizations is working to deliver ASAP.
I really hope they didn't write "Senneheiser" in the blurb...
Yes he did. Will's post, stickied at the top of the discussion section.
I was counting on fixing any shortcomings of frequency response with EQ.
What swayed me was your CSD which seemed improved for the 8xx, compared to the 800S's peninsular protrusions sharp & southward.
Is that a fair reading of the charts?
@tranq its about finding people's preferences and see if they line up with yours. I know I don't follow anything that crinacle says just from the fact that he loves the sony IER-Z1r's and gives it a S grade on tonality when it was the most uncohesive tuning of drivers with an unbearable weird BA upper mid bite. But some people like that sound. You just have to triangulate your preferences.
Separate names with a comma.