General Auto Chat

Discussion in 'Cars, Motorcycles, Boats, Airplanes Talk' started by Maxvla, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    So its come time to turn in the F150. Ive considered just getting another one, but the new Rams from what Ive seen are really nice and if you catch Dodge at the right time that can be quite bit cheaper than the F150 payment wise. Also another thing to consider is that I just got a new job and there will be a lot of driving involved so Im going to have to consider gas mileage. That said though I dont want to sacrifice comfort, again because of the driving.

    I like the truck and I like driving it and its very comfortable, I am not sure but it may be tough to go back to a car after driving a truck for three years. The thing about the Ford though is I never liked the payment and I wish I could get something cheaper, though Im not completely sure thats possible and still get what I like.

    I get an employee discount on Chevys actually but strangely even with my discount a payment on a Silvarado isn't really any cheaper than the Ford and I prefer the Ford, which is why I went with it in the first place. There isn't really anything that the Chevy has that would draw me from a Ford or Dodge aside from price. Now if GM would actually take that Caddillac 3.6TT and put it in a Colorado or Silvarado maybe they would get my attention but they refuse so...oh well.

    Other vehicles Im considering could be a Charger Scat Pack. Problem with that is I think the payment on that would actually be more than a truck right now, but I would have to talk to a dealer to be sure. Also Im a bit wary of the build quality of the FCA cars and Im afraid its just not going to hold up, but then again it will be a lease so does that even matter. Are the quality issues blown out of proportion by biased magazine writers and internet folk? I think maybe because there are tons of scat packs, hellcats and SRTs running around here and if they were crap I wouldn't see so many. I am in the metro Detroit area so I am in the heart of Chrysler country. Still seems like it would be a really fun car.

    The others are either a Taurus SHO, by far the cheapest of the bunch, but also probably the most boring, but hey people may actually get out of my way on the freeway because they will think its a cop car. A Chevy SS, Ive always loved that car but they are still going for 35+ around here, I would want a stick and finding one will require a bit of patience. I probably should have gotten one instead of the F150 when I still could get one new but I wanted to take a break from a stick for a bit and the discount on them sucked. Lastly a CTS V sport, they're going for around low 30s, but again potential GM quality issues. Also all of these cars are now out of production so I would have to buy one and would probably have a relatively high payment or I would have to finance one for a insane amount of time and I dont know if I really want to do that.

    As you may have noticed I like fast cars, but I also have two kids in car seats, so I need room, so thats why the full size sedan or truck. For someone that likes fast stuff a truck may be a surprise but the twin turbo F150s are surprisingly quick for what they are and with a tune they are quicker still.

    does anyone have any insights on any of these cars? I really need to get out and drive a few to see what I really like though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  2. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    As to the quality of FCA vehicles, the negative stuff is blown out of proportion. Also, the charger is on the LX platform which is very mature, plus the Hemi's (2006+) are super reliable. They don't build police highway cruisers out of unreliable cars (crown Vic, 96 Impala, etc) so take that for what you will.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I have a Scat Pack Charger and Wrangler. The only thing you have to worry about is FCA employees not attaching things properly like trim pieces on Monday. No biggie since we can just pop them back on. The Charger and 300B have essentially been the same car for 15 years now, on the same or slightly tweaked platform. FCA has had all the time to improve major issues (that cost them money). The gaps on the exterior panels are good enough. They are not Lexus precision, but I can say for certainty far super to Tesla. Let's say on par with Mazda, better than Mini. The motors and transmissions are indestructible, can use shitty gas, and don't grenade themselves like that of the Ford DOHC or the occasional Chevy transmissions. Also, if something actually broke, it's dirt cheap to fix. We learned the hard way with an Acura MDX SUV, which turned out to be the most unreliable vehicle we ever owned. Add insult to injury, parts cost was enormous.

    All these quality issues are blown out of proportion. There are these things called warranties and if you are attentive, you will get the dealer to fix everything before they expire. Most major issues will arise early. Quality has massively improved over the decades across all brands.

    There's a reason why so many old Chargers (and Wranglers) are still on the road, in California, and especially in Michigan. I do see more Charger (of the Scat Pack and Hellcat variety) these days in California. Fast and Furious is responsible for that. It's fun picking up my son from middle school where his peers think his dad has the most awesome car, even though there are plenty of Porsches and Tesla Model S' around. Even my daughter, who was embarrassed initially thinks it's cool now, namely because there's an older girl at her high school with a Charger (not Scat Pack).

    The downside with the Scat Pack is that the gas pedal is sensitive, like that of the Beemers that if you just touch it, you just take off. And if you press down below 15 mph on cold tires or slippery roads, you die. Traction control and nannies may not come on timely enough. The car is a bit under-tired with all that low-end torque. I figured I'd add that note because I used to live in Michigan. Depending upon where you live in MI, the suspension of the Scat Pack may not be compliant enough - it's tuned pretty stiff, but the ride is still comfortable because of the long wheelbase.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  4. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    Anywhere in metro Detroit the scat pack is going to ride like hell but people around there are used to the shitty roads for the most part.

    The only issues I've had with my 300C were because it's an 05 and the 05 Hemi's like to drop valve seats around 100k. Otherwise every single thing in the car still works and it has every single option but satnav (thankfully). All the electronics are perfect, all the interior stuff is perfect. No broken tabs or hooks or hinges. I've replaced the standard wearable items like suspension, tires, brakes and fluids. You wouldn't know it was a 15 year old car.
     
  5. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    Very nice. Yeah the pickup soaks up the bumps pretty good around here and its nice not having to pray I dont blow a tire every time I see a pothole.

    Ill have to take a look at some of the chargers or even maybe a used 300 which honesty I think I prefer the look of. Im still not sure the payment will work out though.

    The driving for work thing is better than I though it would, but still Ill be running from Warren to Dearborn or to Livonia every day until probably May at least. So thats probably going to average to about 20 miles one way per day.

    What I really want is an SS really now that Ive been thinking about it. Im just not comfortable with either a big payment or what I would consider an unreasonable amount of time to finance a car, especially a used one. However if there was one car to do that with it would be an SS which probably wont depreciate much if at all and I doubt id ever want to get rid of it anyway.

    The guy I just bought the F150 from actually got me a deal on a new one thats decent. I also have to check a few more dodge/ram dealers to see how the trucks lease out before I decide.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  6. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    I get about 24 mpg on the highway and 16-17 around town, but I only have a 5 speed trans (Mercedes 722.6 / Chrysler NAG1) so a newer model with an 8+ speed torqueflite would get significantly better.
     
  7. YMO

    YMO it's not drinking alone if you're on Zoom

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    I should tell you the stories on the car finance side for CDJ during 08-12 recession. We can really tell you what we think on the $ side. It's fun.
     
  8. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    My wet dream. Not many of these where I live, but every car aficionado knows what they are.
     
  9. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Just adding another little historical tidbit: from what I understand, the current Charger platform traces it's roots to a Renault/Eagle platform that Bob Lutz had a hard-on for. After the Daimler "merger of equals" the L platform did some component sharing with the MB W201-derived rear suspension. So, the current LD platform has roots in a unibody chassis platform from 1990's with a sub-chassis' from the late 1980's. There's not a lot of merit to the idea that FCA cars are inherently poor quality because of idiotic Italian engineering. The engineering is pretty well figured out. Assembly is where FCA can be questionable, and typically assembly issues are where the FCA warranty will cover you. The 392 is a good, well engineered motor if you don't add boost or NOS. If anything, FCA is really good at hanging new fenders/fascias on really old well worn platforms.
     
  10. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    Yeah, If I got the 392 I dont think I would really mod it. From most things Ive read about them its sort of at the limit already of whats usable for a same person in a street car.

    I still think I will check some out, but right now Im actively looking for a "reasonably" priced M6 SS...or really any M6 SS that doesn't sell within 10 minutes of showing up on the internet...
     
  11. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    This traces is roots to the 70s-90s period when FIAT was the car for the Italian proletariat and had to be ugly and ill-fitting or the owner would feel like a class traitor.

    Refinement is an oppression tool of Bourgeoisie or something.

    One of the fallouts of the many, many government bailouts that kept it alive before Marchionne is a heavy political influence onto design, its results became procedural and they're still sweating them out.

    Engineering wise - fiats are as common as dirt here, and they last a long, looong time.

    You'd be hard pressed to find something larger than 2.5l though, so I can't speak for the genital compensation motors.
     
  12. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador - Friend

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    I asked this last summer, I got some great responses, but luckily I didn't buy anything. I was just tired of my 2000 TL and wanted something else, but I knew I wouldn't be buying what I really wanted. Just something slightly better, since at the time I was planning to go back to school in January.

    But plans changed, and I took a full time offer. So now I can buy something. Been doing a ton of research, and have been sort of all over the place, as this is the first time I'll have a solid budget for a car and Ill be able to buy something I really want rather than just a mode of transport. I've always been a car guy, in the respect that I've been reading Motor Trend monthly since I was like 10, and spent my childhood in the elementary school library with my nerdy friends looking at books about super cars and the fastest cars on out at the time. I am however, not a mechanic type car guy, so I can't take of anything I buy myself really, those just aren't skills I have, nor am I sure I want to get them as I don't have the equipment either.

    As far as budget goes, I am really wanting to stay in the 35-40k range, though as you'll see in a bit, there is a car I'm considering that is more than that, though for decent enough reason. I also really wanted to get something 2012 or newer. Sort of arbitrary, but it was mostly so I didn't get something over 10 years old that would be more problems.

    The first car I was considering was the Audi R8 V8 with a manual transmission. Ever since the first time I saw one of these in person back in 2016, I was in love, and when I heard the V8 exhaust note I knew it was a car I wanted to own. At the time I went and looked at pricing, and I saw you could get an early model V8 for around 65-70k. Over the last couple weeks I've gone from wanting one, to deciding I don't. Not necessarily because its too expensive, but because of the risk in maintenance in owning one. There are a few too many major, common, maintenance issues that cost too much for me to be willing to get it. Even if I think its one of the top 5 prettiest cars out there right now.

    The second car I was considering was a Porsche Cayman. I have been a Porsche fanboy since I was like 12 when the 996 GT2 came out and MT reviewed it. I always wanted a 911, but considering my two rules above, I can't get one for the price range I was considering as well as be new enough. The cayman is also a fantastic car, and has potentially better driving dynamics than the 911. There are plenty of these in the price range im looking at.

    The third car I was looking at is a C7 Corvette. This is maybe the best value in performance cars by the numbers alone. I also happen to think it looks pretty awesome from every angle except the rear end. It is also very reliable and extremely cheap to maintain, at least compared to everything else on the list. And totally possible to get one a few years old for 35k-ish.

    A new wrinkle in the C7 idea, is that you can also get brand new ones for like 12k off list and Chevy is offering 0% financing for up to 84 months.

    The fourth car I was considering is similar to one I listed before, the Audi RS5. It has a sweet V8 engine, without the same timing chain issues as its a different V8 than the one in the S5, one downside is the lack of manual transmission. It it also rather heavy, but I do like the way they look.

    Here is where I hit a bit of a road block. Ive always had cars that were just for transport like I said. This car will also be my daily driver. Do I really want some high performance car to be my only ride? Would it get old driving a Cayman or Corvette back and forth to work every day? Sometimes you have to sit down and think about the fact that what you want isn't necessarily the best intellectual choice for your needs. I want a sports car cause ive been dreaming about them for years. Not to mention the idea of going to pick up someone in the Corvette with its sort of over the top looks, not sure I want that.

    This is where I took a turn, since I had considered an R8 that was older than I wanted purely out of need, why not do the same with a 911? Since it is the car ive wanted since I was 12, not to mention the 997 is my favorite generation, and it just happens to be the newest one that would fit into my budget.

    So now, the front runner is probably a 07 or 08 997 Carrera S with a manual transmission. People complain they have gotten more GT-esque over the years, but that may help my concerns from the previous paragraph? It seems like it wouldn't be ridiculous to drive back and forth to work every day, as well as being tons of fun to drive. The reliability also seems to be really high as long as you get an 06 or newer where the IMS bearing issue got resolved.


    The last entry on the list is a Tesla Model 3 Performance. I have loved Tesla's ever since I got to drive a friends dual motor model S several years ago. The instant torque and throttle response is intoxicating, as well as the resulting acceleration figures. This is a more expensive vehicle, looking at 65k new, and used prices are crazy, so I would buy new. The consolation is that maintenance is almost non-existent and I wouldn't be paying for gas, as I could charge for free at work. This is made the most practical option, while also being the fastest. And they are fast in a way that makes the most sense for having fun while driving back and forth to work on a daily basis. The main downside is that I really wanted a coupe, rather than a sedan. I ams still highly considering it though as it ticks a lot of check boxes. Though Tesla's do struggle in a way as cars, in that the interiors don't really feel up to snuff and Ive heard horror stories about wait times for parts if you do end up needing something fixed.

    My heart says to get the 911.

    Are there any cars I'm forgetting about that I should be considering, or any reasons I should/shouldnt be looking at the ones I already am considering?

    Ive considered a few BMWs, but they don't really do it for me looks wise, there's just something that just doesn't click with them for me.

    TL;dr, Soup wants a new car, is considering; Audi R8, Audi RS5, C7 Corvette, Porsche Cayman, Porsche 997 911, Tesla Model 3 Performance. Doesn't really know if any of the above would be reasonable as a daily driver but has been reading car mags since he was young and wants a sports car.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Check insurance rates.
     
  14. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

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    My vote is for model 3. You get the speed and you still get the comfort of the daily driver.

    My dad has a Porsche and I babysat it for a week. First 30 minutes were exhilarating. After that it was a week of driving around in an overly loud, cramped, bumpy, vacation home priced, low to the ground vehicle that makes every teenager want to drag race you and every cop watch you like a hawk, waiting for you to go even 5 over the limit.

    EDIT: Also, you can just get a Porsche and “get it out of the way” early.

    EDIT2: Definitely get the Porsche, now seems to be the time to own a car like that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  15. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador - Friend

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    that was a fun 15 minutes on the insurance website, the 911 was cheapest by far

    R8 = rs5 >> model 3 > corvette >> 911
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  16. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Everyone knows the 911 is best option cause it doubles as pussy magnet
     
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  17. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador - Friend

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  18. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    The car of hank moody dripping in sexxx
     
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  19. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    I'm going to ask the obvious question - have you already test driven them all? I feel like 30 minutes in any of those would answer most of your questions. After that, for me, it'd be total cost of ownership including insurance, maint, likelihood of getting tickets and the increased insurance costs, random salty a-holes denting or keying a nice car b/c they can and having to fix it (hasn't happened to me, but I know it's really bad in some places), miscellaneous costs, etc. Then part and good service availability in my area (~10 years ago I had a car that was "wait 1 week for parts" if I went to a dealership for repairs or "wait 2 weeks" if I went elsewhere, it sucked). Everything else after. Other factors like safety are kind of assumed already - don't buy a sports car if you want safety (although while not a sports car IMO, Tesla does rate pretty much Volvo level).

    Personally (my preferences), based on my preferences:
    1. Cayman (982) - IMO the Cayman is more of a well put together package that drives well to me instead of a "truer" race car like the 911 or a "real" luxury car (new Miata, E30 BWMs, or current BMW M2/M240 also come to mind). IMO more fun to have a car you can take closer to it's limits (Cayman) than a car that is driving on easy mode all day (911).
    2. A 997.2 if possible, then the 997.1. Also, if 997, the specific model would be important - I wouldn't enjoy driving something like a GT3RS as a daily driver around where I live (although you say Carerra specifically, which I feel like are fine as a daily). One of my favorite cars too, but I wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of finding a nice used 997 hence #2. If you have already found a nice 997 - DO EEEEEEEETTTT.
    3. Tesla 3 - I actually haven't driven the Tesla 3 but have driven a few different model S since 2013/2014 and personally dislike almost everything about them (and this is why I haven't bothered to try a 3) aside from the incredible Tesla motor.
    4. C7 - I don't really like the way a stock C7 drives (it drives well in many ways, just not what I like). Everything else like parts and maint would probably be much easier though, mature platform with lots of common GM parts and GM commonality, etc. Also more likely to get one in good condition + low mileage for a good price.
    5. R8 - I've driven the R8 briefly before and it was great, probably better than all the above in terms of driving, but I wouldn't want to deal with ownership unless I just had that much extra time, money, and a spare car (which you already allude to).
    N/A. Haven't driven an RS5 to say but based on most of the Audis I've driven in the last 10 years, IMO they're in the same rut that BMW and MB are currently in - the different models are really hit or miss right now (mostly miss though, but who knows, maybe the RS5 is one of the hits).

    Regarding if it gets old, that's really hard to say. I've driven I'd say enough nice cars for various reasons such as having to babysit cars for people. I know cost of ownership on some of those would get old for me so fast I'd never buy the car. Others I'd still buy despite the hassle of ownership. FWIW, my car after taxes and all was probably a bit more than what you are looking to spend (do not interpret as pissing contest), but sometimes after 2 years I still wish I would have just bought a (nicer) Accord, Mazda 6, or even a Camaro, especially when I'm sitting in traffic and everyone is going 0 anyways. That extra $20k is significant for where I'm at in life. More often though, but maybe not often enough, I'm happy I have my car and would do it all over again.

    Or if you want to buy based off of negative stereotypes of owners *upside-down smiley* (not serious, I fit many stereotypes for my own car too):
    R8 - showboat car the driver can't actually afford
    911 - douchenozzles and/or sleazebags
    3 - every idiot 30-40 year old smug ass self-superior feeling granola yuppie that doesn't actually know how to drive or everyone hopping on the hype train b/c hype train.
    Corvette C7 - 60+ year old's way of saying "i used to be poor". probably doesn't get driven b/c first not slow car at 60+ and your bad eyes and reflexes can't adapt fast enough.
    Cayman - just why?
    RS5 - kind of expensive for such a bland car. almost like your rolex date-just you probably wear when you drive the car.

    Random aside: I'm amazed the 911 has the lowest insurance rates... I expected R8 > 911 > 3 >> Corvette. I also wonder about general reliability - 911 are well designed but most 911 are probably low mileage garage queens vs say 3's are driven and taken care of like normal cars probably.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  20. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    All of those are great cars and I'd never buy a single one.

    They all fail the fun test, can you take it to a back road and have fun - that is, drive close to the car's limits - without:

    - Losing your license
    - Killing someone
    - Dying

    For basically every car except MX-5/124 and GT-86/BRZ you fail those tests, because the limits of the car are so stupidly high you can only reach them on track - or going roughly 2x the speed limit.

    Cayman and Alpine A110 are already way too capable.

    If I'm going to buy a luxury car that I'll drive way below its limits I'll get an actual luxury car with fat-cat seats.
     

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