General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Yikes.

    I think you should try to get your ears on at least one variant of the Song 3 or the SCM 19. They are very different in presentation. Personally, I prefer the ATC stuff. The SCM 19 I guess can be said to have a "British" kind of sound with a bit of midbass punch, full bodied mids with a BBC dip (2-3kHz), and some sizzle if listened to head-on. The trick is to angle them so they are off-axis by just a slightly bit. I also like the sound of the more traditional silk domes and sticky paper of the ATCs.

    While I haven't heard the entire Song 3 line, the ones I have with the 7.5 Satori woofer all sound lean, and to my ears desperately need a subwoofer. Subjectivity, I hear a lack of any real bass below say 60Hz, and any bass that I do hear below 90Hz is of poor quality. I'd rather take the SCM19 which doesn't have the bass extension "specs", but actually has real usable bass to those specs which are indicate.

    I know the specs of the Song 3 variants (with the 7.5 woofers) say they go down to 33Hz, but that's kind of bullshit. I know where that came from. The Satori datasheet says that extension down to 33Hz is possible with a certain cabinet size and port tuning. This is true depending upon how one looks at things.

    This a model of the specific tuning of the Satori for the "33Hz" extension. The box would be 33l with a port tuning of 32.5Hz.
    upload_2020-1-12_12-14-58.png

    The -3db point is 38Hz, not 33Hz. However, the bigger deal-breaker to me is that this looks more like an EBS (extended bass shelf) alignment which tends to sound leaner and less punchy than a say a quasi-butterworth alignment, which has much less extension, but IMO, better sounding bass that keeps steadier until it more suddenly drops. See below for such an alignment (darker green line) compared to what I suspect is what the Song 3 implements (light green).

    upload_2020-1-12_12-21-47.png

    If you can't tell already, I'm not a fan of EBS alignments, well at least not with small woofers. With 15" to 18" woofers, EBS can work.

    I'll give you my two cents on the AT drivers. I think I am the one who might have said that.

    To be continued.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  2. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    without a doubt id go with scm20/19.
    atc doesnt lose its value compared to salk

    the salk 3 use a small metal mid. the mids will likely sound small and i dont particularly like the sound metal mids drivers (you might) especially compared to the excellent paper mids from scm20/19. the atc mids will most likely be a major step up
    plus the atc are sealed so integration with a sub might be doable. the salk 3 with its 7 inch woofer wont give true bass even though their spec says otherwise. a 7 inch
    extending down to 35hz still lacks serious authority from 100hz down
    finally i think the salk 3 is overpriced overall. theres no point to desing a 3 way when you use a small 7 inch for the woofer part.

    id rather pay 2.5k for the madisound kit using the satori mids in a 2.5 way setup. this will likely give better bass, better
    mids tone and details.
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2.5-way-speaker-kits/satori-rinjani-2.5-way-speaker-kit-pair/
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  3. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    The Rinjani kit has been on my radar since it was first announced but for the life of me finding impressions of them are challenging.

    @murphythecat I know this is going to be a stretch (but bare with me) but can you comment on how the Seas A26 kit and ATC SCM7 differ mainly in the midrange and treble area? With respect to tone and timbre, how do either contrast to that of the HD650?

    I certainly to a darker tilt which is why I've kept the 650's as long as I have and steer away from Focal in all departments. Finding a similar sounding speaker has been challenging and oddly I wasn't that impressed by the SCM40A because in the end I just found it boring to listen to.
     
  4. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    IMO, if you like a darker tilt, I don’t think you’ll like the SCM7s. They are neutral and even a bit hot on top and through the upper mids. But overall I found them to be fairly lean sounding because they have no bass and a sealed cab, they roll off on the bottom end very early. Unless you manage to find a good match with a dark and smooth front end (amp especially), I can’t see anyone with a dark preference preferring them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  5. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    recently ive put the scm7 in the place of my seas a26. its a big letdown. if your not space limited like me in my living room hence the scm7, the a26 is vastly superior. indeed the scm 7 is just slighthly bright prob due to real lack of 30hz to 50hz energy

    the a26 have a much bigger image and i cannot stress this enough small mids make instruments sounds toy like where as the a26 mids have a believable image size, real bass and the treble is great especially since you can tune it via the resistor. the a26 bass which is very decent/ impressive makes the speaker sound fun for sure. downside is id say ultimately the bass lacks snap and can sound slightly soft but this is relative to 12 inch or 15 inch woofers. the a26 compares to harbeth shl5, not p3esr or scm7.
    rinjani vs a26 i have no idea id think both would be excellent especiallly
    for the money
     
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  6. Luigi Pichardo

    Luigi Pichardo Rando

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    I am thinking of getting the Salk Sound 3 BeATs, not sure if at the time of your post those were the ones demoed. What speakers at that similar price do you own/owned which could blow them out of the water?
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The SCM7 is like the deformed bastard child runt of the ATC lineup. It has ATC DNA, but it's a bit off.
     
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  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Aren't there any audiophile stores nearby where you can get a demo? It's hard for anyone to make a recommendation without any common references to what you may like.
     
  9. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    yeah, the atc paper cone and dome tweeter.
    the scm7 v3 is definitely limited. it's still a good speaker at least when i compared it to the kef ls50 and harbeth p3esr. in the 5 inch based 2 way realm compared to other 5 inch based 2 way, its great. I dont see no point on getting a small 5 inch based speaker unless one is severely limited in space, which is exactly my situation in my living room

    When i heard the scm19 v3, I have to say Id need a sub with it ultimately and this opens up another set of compromise or problems.
     
  10. Luigi Pichardo

    Luigi Pichardo Rando

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    Not a bad idea. I live in the Niagara/Toronto Ontario Region, which is also by Buffalo.
     
  11. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar was: dingleberry; now: chill + interesting

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    The cheaper ATCs don’t have the super special drivers and need beefy amps to get any real bass extension and punch. The SCM 50 and up are the real deal and you might as well go active and get the big black pro versions. The amps are marked up. The paneling is marked up. 15 thousand dollar speakers lack waf anyway.

    The 20 is the exception with the specialness in a midrangey, NS10 like but much better, sound.
     
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  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The "good" ATCs are the ones with their special dome midrange driver. All will have their Brit sound (for better or worse - IMO mostly better than most) except for their SCM7 which seems to be their micro-speaker entry.
     
  13. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    I was speaking to my local (singapore) atc sole distributor (who has become a friend) on why they gave up atc.

    He told me that they are losing money distributing it because of the problems they had with the active versions. Apparently return rate for most models are >50% as the inbuilt amplifier can't seem to withstand the humidity of Singapore and needs repair within months. The pro 25a is the worst. 100% return.
     
  14. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    That's a little bit surprising. The UK isn't exactly known for being dry either... but I guess it's significantly cooler too.
     
  15. ogodei

    ogodei Friend

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  16. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    @ogodei I probably have a few hundred hours listening time on Khorns of various vintages. Those appear to be owner finished Birch Raw (BR) cabinets which were the least expensive of all of them. I forget how to read the date codes on those so I'm not going to be of much help there. They're old enough that you'll want to do some Crites Xover upgrades if you get them.

    If I remember correctly, Khorns efficiency were around 103-104dB. They sound OK but don't play super deep. You basically need a room built specifically for them to get the listening position right, and you cant play with toe-in. I always thought they were too tall unless you're going to listen from 20+ feet away. Otherwise you're kinda sitting underneath the squawker and tweeter.

    Personally I'd hold out for a deal on LaScalas and use a sub, or some used Cornwall IIs. Cornwalls are nice and punchy but arent quite as nice in the mids and highs as LaScalas. But Cornwalls kind of have the best tradeoffs of all the Klipsch heritage line. I think Cornwalls and LaScalas were around 101dB efficient.
     
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  17. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    I haven't, mostly because they are massive and need to be in room corners so placement is annoying.

    I will say that if you are looking into any Klipsch speakers that you should reach out to Cory Harrison at Paducah Home Theater in Kentucky. He and his business partner run the KLIPSCH fan group on Facebook as well. Great pricing, and they're currently clearing out some B-stock and now-replaced models like the Cornwall III.
     
  18. ogodei

    ogodei Friend

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    @crazychile , @zonto , thanks for the info. These just popped up on the radar, I like watching for big ol' speakers the Chicagoland locals need to get rid of but cant ship.

    I've always been afraid of Kilpsch speakers & horns in general, tell the truth. The sensitivity on these had me wondering but that corner placement would be PITA and Im not in the mood to upgrade more crossovers

    Im looking for a stereo pair (no sub) to run off a SET amp, my Moth si2A3 or other. Im going to try out the Tektons Perfect set 15 and possibly these. The sensitivity numbers are clearly fibbed but we'll see what happens.
     
  19. imackler

    imackler Key Lime Pie Infected Aberdeen Wings Spy

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    Hey all! I met someone whose friend is leaving him with "really good" speakers while he goes out of country. Of course, I should have asked what speaker. But I told him I'd ask for recommendations for a budget amp (150-200). He doesn't want to invest too much because he'll have to give them back. This is his first foray into high-quality sound. Any thoughts?
     
  20. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I've been using this to listen to the radio during summer months after buying Aegir monos (too hot); it does nothing awful and is in fact pretty satisfying:

    https://www.amazon.com/TOPPING-PA3-...qid=1579563629&sprefix=topping,aps,444&sr=8-3
     
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