HD650 KISS mod

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by purr1n, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. stormdrain

    stormdrain Rando

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Deleted
     
  2. e.schell

    e.schell Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Likes Received:
    584
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Illinois
    Here is my attempt to replicate the mod... if there is anything you see i have done wrong, could do better please let me know!! Thanks in advance.
    I did swap out the one layer of foam for the folded over kept flush/slightly inserted into magnet hole and it helped with the bass. WowyWowsers these things sound excellent. Haven't wanted to listen with anything else lately!

    [​IMG]
     
    AUTIGER, joeexp, FlySweep and 2 others like this.
  3. Dino

    Dino Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Looks like Marv's KISS Mod to me @e.schell .
     
  4. Yeskey

    Yeskey Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    377
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    San Diego
    Messing around with the foam disk insertion, i know Marvey said not to push it in too far because it screws up the sound (mids disappear) but you get such a stupidly fun amount of sub bass it's addicting with EDM.

    I've since found a happy medium with a sticky sorb block holding the foam in place, but I've replaced most of my sorb dampener with second skin damplifier pro because sorbothane is terribad in cold/dry weather. Still toying around with channel balance but otherwise things are going smoothly.
     
  5. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Dislikes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    93
    anyone else had a hd650 with spider and foam removed + dynamat that tried to add the foam crescent of the KISS mods and didnt like the results?

    I do find that adding the crescent foam reduce the 100hz boost and make the bass tighter, but I feel some of the infamous veil came back...

    anyone else?
     
    Garns likes this.
  6. Garns

    Garns Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,979
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Sydney, AUS
    ^^^ Yes, me. I've tried re-adding all sorts of different damping behind the driver including various amounts of stock foam. I have a dynamat donut on the magnet and adhere damping material to the top of it. Certainly it reduces the bass to more tolerable levels but openness and microdynamics seem to take a hit. I find it a bit dull and unengaging. For my tastes, in the end I would rather deal with the extra bass.

    I think this is a bit amp dependent. Valhalla 2 suffers more than Jotunheim on re-adding foam. Unfortunately Valhalla 2 also has a greater need of bringing the bass down a bit...
     
    murphythecat likes this.
  7. ibzrg1570

    ibzrg1570 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Likes Received:
    199
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Did you try coin mod?
     
  8. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hmmn.. is the grill off permanently or is it just to show how the mod installation went? If the grill is supposed to be on, does anyone have pics of the completed mod with grills on?
     
  9. ibzrg1570

    ibzrg1570 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Likes Received:
    199
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Put the grill back on.
     
  10. Yeskey

    Yeskey Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    377
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    San Diego
    I don't know about others but I always put the grill back on after pics. I remember solderdude measuring the differences between grill and no-grill in his Hd650 compilation google PDF if you were interested in a good read. (Post 4 for the forum for the link, pg40 in the pdf)

    http://diyah.boards.net/thread/377/hd-650
     
  11. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Dislikes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    I liked it more with a small circle of foam cut to fit inside my dyna-donut so it's flush with the magnet than I did with a disk of foam hovering above the hole. You could try this if you haven't already.
     
    murphythecat and Garns like this.
  12. Garns

    Garns Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,979
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Sydney, AUS
    Thanks, will give that a try!
     
  13. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Dislikes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I have a modded pair and a stock pair. I find that the 650 with no foam and no spider is too wild in the bass and I prefer the hd650 stock but I do find the stock hd650 overdamped making the sound a bit too dark .

    so you added the spider back without ill effect?

    Reflections from the spider and metal grills are secondary reflections and are probably desired?
    the spider circle is not in line with the drier vent and is not far from the metal grills , about 5mm away from the grills. removing the spider to remove reflections seems pointless since if the spider would really creates undesirable reflections that would go back to the driver, the metal grills would also behave similarly.

    I think that the original mod for hd650 (remove the foam and spider) seem to add air and clarity because the removal of the foam allow secondary reflections from the grills back to the driver. a bit like in room acoustic, first reflection are detrimental but secondary reflections are desirable! the biggest problem is that no foam adds too much at 100hz hence the KISS mod.

    Foam over the hole vs foam over the entire magnet!
    the KISS mod adds back the hd650 stock thickness of the foam over the hole via the folded layer of foam. the biggest difference is that the 650 stock has 2 layers of foam that covers the whole magnet. The Kiss mod reduce considerably the foam circumference and therefore reduce the absorption of the secondary reflections. I begin to think that the secondary reflections are desired in the hd650 and that its why removing as much as possible the back foam is best.

    so, I think that keeping the 650 stock with the spider and the 2 layers of foam over the hole but trim as much as possible all around the magnet so that the foam would only cover the hole should work well and would leave the midbass FR just like the stock hd650 and make this mod even easier.

    trimming the foam as much as possible also allow to apply dynamat on the magnet.

    so to make this mod even simpler, i think one could get identical results:
    trim the foam so just the hole is covered by the foam. (white marking)
    apply dynamat (grey marking)
    [​IMG]upload png
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    neogeosnk likes this.
  14. mawk

    mawk Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    91
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The problems I think you might run into are a) will there be enough dynamat on the magnet to damp it properly? and b) will trimming the foam mean that the foam sits too loose over the hole in the magnet?

    Given that trimming the foam is arguably performing non-reversible mods anyway, you might be better off just removing the spider altogether. Having said that I personally prefer a single foam layer on top of a dynamat ring, and I don't have a spare 650 to experiment with other configurations.

    Incidentally, if anyone wants dynamat for the KISS mod, I still have some spare lying around that I don't have any use for. If anyone wants some and is willing to put up with slow international shipping (no cost to you) chuck me a PM.
     
    Philimon, MellowVelo and Dino like this.
  15. SSL

    SSL Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    Dislikes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    93
    What did KISS stand for again? I'm having trouble remembering. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Yeskey

    Yeskey Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    377
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    San Diego
    Keep it simple silly!
     
  17. jayeshrc

    jayeshrc Resident Crash Test Dummy

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    563
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Eindhoven
    [​IMG]
    More like his sarcasm, but yeah
     
    slankoe and SSL like this.
  18. rainer.skill

    rainer.skill Rando

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Likes Received:
    6
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Germany
    I tried to put this mod on top of the dynamat ring that I already had applied. I felt that it wouldn't be a good idea to remove the dynamat on the magnet because it glued like hell. I didn't have the rear foams anymore so I cut out a piece of the foam pad in the earcup (which I replaced with coin modded K240 foams). Any thoughts? Maybe too much dynamat? Bass still seems a bit bloated for my taste.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Dislikes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    The front foam is pretty thin. Try doubling up if you haven't already (it looks like only 1 layer in the photo). More rear damping will reduce the bass response a bit and tighten it up.
     
    rainer.skill likes this.
  20. Decomo

    Decomo Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    205
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Australia
    I just did KISS Mod as well as quarter mod (coin mod).. I found that it is still a bit veiled. @Marvey did not find it is necessary because he is pairing with Jot if I understood correctly. I am using Meier Corda Concerto and it must be not as resolving as Jot so it did better for me with Coin Mod....

    Edit: @Marvey Thank you so much for sharing KISS mod to community. I found that it is easy to follow and sound is definitely better after mod. :)
     

Share This Page