Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Just make these Ergo IX : https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...-e-ix-mini-monitor-loudspeaker-system.112905/

I had Proac d18 for years, same drivers as D2 but in a column. Ergo IX just smoked them, no competition and being a closed box you can place them near walls.

 

Just listed my near-perfect condition ATC SCM12 Pro passive studio monitors F.S. (USAM & Head-Fi). They're amazing, but with 2 other pairs of top British monitors here, something had to give...

Please PM me if any interest.

 

Updated Vanatoos (Both T1 and T0) are excellent, especially for what they are. They're quite neutral and have deceptively good bass extension. Definitely top contenders for their respective sizes and prices.

Also going to give a shoutout to the JBL studio 530s, although they aren't in production anymore. At $240 they were possibly the cheapest speakers on the market that didn't represent any major compromise from solid entry-level options, and beat out speakers such as the Kef q150, B&W 606/7 S2, And Kanto Yu powered/ passive speakers. If you're looking for a budget setup and see these for cheap on the secondhand market, I'd definitely recommend buying them.

 

I recently got some Sourcepoint 8s for my desk. Killer option for those who have the space. I had the Atalante 3s before and can recommend those who don't have as much space. Revival audio also makes the Sprint 3 that look like a great option as well. I've been impressed with their stuff so I don't have a doubt that the Sprint 3s would sound great for nearfield.

 

I've been thinking about putting a nearfield setup at my desk, since I've been working from home more lately. I've got a fairly large desk at 30" deep x 60" wide. And I have a right corner reflection to deal with. Below is a photo.

One catch is I'm in New Zealand, so searching for esoteric models of speakers really won't work since the second hand market is very limited. You sort of got to take what you can get here on the second hand market, and put up alerts and wait for year/s for something to pop up.

My source will be my main PC via USB for now. I'm not really sure where to start. Something small and musical sonding would be good. I can't get Vanatoos here, but I've already looked into them and ultimately decided the USB implementation would bug me and I'd rather run the DAC seperately so I can choose a DAC I like the sound of.

A small setup like Modi/Rekkr sized components plus speakers could be a good start. If anyone have suggestions on where to start that would be great..

 

I really hope that Amazon.au delivering to NZ is showing me the wrong prices because everything sucks...

So "small" is going to be a little relative, here.
T0-ish size for relatively cheap: Edifier MR4 (should be significantly less expensive) Yamaha hs3/4, Kali LP-UNF are all I know of. They're all powered. Avoid most stuff from presonus, kanto, mackie, etc. There are very few speakers at a 3-400 USD pricepoint in this form factor that aren't junk.

Not-so-cheap T0-sized speakers: Dali minuet SE, Harbeth P3ESR XD (both passive), Depending on your preferences, powered studio monitors like neumann kh80, Genelec 8010-8030, or Iloud MTM's might work. I would stay away from LS/3 5a replicas just by virtue of their numerous design flaws, although there are definitely people who like their sound.

For slightly larger options I'll link to a few on NZ amazon, which I have my region set to. I'm not familiar with the market so if notice the prices I mention here are significantly off you'll probably want to disregard these comments.

Polk XT-15/Xt-20's seem like the most reasonable options, At $350 and $500 a pair. They're just relatively decent, neutralish speakers. https://www.amazon.com.au/Polk-Monitor-Bookshelf-Surround-Speakers/dp/B09BMXVQFT

From what I found on amazon a Fosi V3 looks like the way to go for an inexpensive amp, compared to other cheap Chinese TPA3255 implementations it uses higher quality parts and have gotten decent reviews from the likes of Arun and such. I've heard topend glare with other TPA3255-based amps like the aiyma a07 and SMSL a100, but I haven't heard this one, so no personal input. https://www.amazon.com.au/Fosi-Audio-V3-Amplifier-Component/dp/B0C36S8DCT/

 

No no, the best solution is get mondo big speakers to use as his desk

 

Crazy to say but Amazon isn't in New Zealand and Amazon AUS doesn't really operate here. It's a good and a bad thing! Awesome, thanks so much for the recommendations. I'll go through that list now.

What DAC do people usually pair with the Fosi v3?

Tagging @Merrick here too as I know he runs/ran nearfield with Fosi V3.

 

JBL 305MkII - and a decent dac preferably with volume control. Use PC to run EQ software to take care of preference and room/placement niggles.

 

+1 for bixby's rec, solid monitors if you can get a hold of them. 306p/308p are also viable but larger. Tannoy Gold 5/7/8, Adam t5v, t7v, t8v, and kali mm6 (comes with dac and remote control) /lp-6 are also good powered options.

As for dacs, JDS labs atom Dac+, Ifi zendac/ zendac air/ uno, Schiit modi if you can get your hands on it (any type), or heck, even the SMSL SU-1 should be fine.

 

Cool thanks @bixby and @Entropy - looks like a lot of the recommendations is to go with powered speakers ala JBL? I guess I like that as it's one less box on my desktop. And one less thing I have to turn on. So at that point I'd just need a DAC with a volume knob.

So I'm going to get the JBL 306/5P MK II pair and some sort of DAC with balanced out and volume control (balance will cut down on USB noise I can get from my source).

JBL are rear ported though and might cause some issues with that corner? The Kali are front ported, that might be better. Also to note that these will be close to the wall. I don't have space in the room to bring the desk out much. I can get 1" between desk in wall which will be about 10" total between back of speaker and wall.

 

Did you end up keeping the Harbeths? Would be curious to hear your take on them vs. the ATCs.

What distance are you sitting from the speakers? I have the P3ESR and was thinking of moving up to the bigger ones but was hesitant about the ideal listening position.

 

MOTU M2 or M4. Reasonably-priced DACs with a volume knob. And a headphone-out with separate volume knob. The headphone-out is good enough for a deaf old guy like me. It's also good enough if you were waiting on buying better headphone amplification in the future.

Don't take my word for it, my ears are lousy now. But the MOTU stuff is well received as lower-budget gear.

That corner is going to give you issues anyway. I listen in a space like a closet --- and when using speakers, the sound stage is weird. Like stuff coming from way off to one side. My hobby is not pin-pointing instruments in an orchestra* so I live with it.



*It might have been, thirty years ago.

 

I am keeping the Harbeth 30.1s. They're quite beautiful with cherry wood that has never seen sunlight (it darkens quite a bit when in sunlight) and look brand new. And I've sold the ATCs. Taking them to UPS office later today.

The ATCs are rather different from the Harbeths: a little heavier, somewhat smaller, not nearly as pretty. But the ATCs are crazy powerful speakers, getting more oomph out of their 6" drivers than the Harbeths do from their 8" drivers. This sonic difference is very much a manifestation of design objectives for both sets of speakers being met: the ATCs are all about accuracy, power, and a truthful (yet quite musical) sound; while the Harbeths are really intended to show the full timbre of instruments and voices. Beyond that, the ATCs are sealed/acoustic suspension vs the Harbeths being ported. As such, the ATCs soak up power and just get louder.

Yet there is something magical about the Harbeths' sound, even at very low volumes. It's smooth, clear, and very much like music, as if a miniature symphony or choir was playing in my office. Easy to see why people adore these speakers.

This is a true nearfield setup, with the speakers only ~1 foot from the back wall (actually a large picture window covered with heavy blinds) and ~3 feet from my chair, a little more if I roll back a bit. This necessarily limits whatever inherent soundstaging attributes the speakers have. But I get little clues that each would blossom quite a bit in a trad stand-mounted setting with more distance to backwall and listener.The Harbeths work suprisingly well in this setup, mainly because their ports are on front and up high, which cuts down room interaction quite a bit. No one recommends nearfield use for speakers of this size, but the 30.1s are pleasing me regardless.

I got away with nearfield use of the ATCs because they have no port to interact with the room. In that sense, your P3ESRs, also being sealed/acoustic suspension design vs the 30.1s, have an advantage. But if you do a lot of low volume listening and only rarely crank them to party levels, the 30.1s will reward your ears. They just have something special.

BTW, when I do crank the Harbeths, they do not displease or disappoint. They're just not quite as exuberant at party volumes as the ATCs. They're true finesse speakers. I can't say enough good things about the Harbeth 30.1s.

On the other hand, if you could possibly fit the ATC SCM19s (roughly the same size as the 30.1s but heavier), you'd probably have one of the most dynamic, exciting 2-ways on the planet. ATC is for real...

 

What's the shipping like from Australia? There's a few things over at Aussieaudiomart. These are the bookshelf speaker listings:
https://www.aussieaudiomart.com/classifieds/26-bookshelf-speakers/

A very rough rule of thumb is you want distance from your back port to wall at least equal to one or two diameters of the port itself. If you go diagonal you can fudge that some. In reality though, you faff about with it and see what sounds ok.

In the same league as the JBLs, I like the Mackie HRM which has passive ports inside. Or just get a sealed monitor.

 

Cool, thanks all.

I did some reading and sleeping on it and one thing I came across that would really bug me is background hiss of most the models I'm looking at. I'm pretty sensitive to environmental noise.

So now I'm thinking passive with a desktop size amp. What are some small passives that I could look at that are readily available in the $250 - 450 per range? I've had a real look at Omegas almost every 2 years, maybe I'll just buy them. The shipping to NZ won't be too bad.

 

Regarding ports in front or ports in back I would not worry about it at all. Since the wavelength of a 30 hz signal is about 37 feet, from what I have read it matters little how close the port is to the other drivers with low omnidirectional bass notes. What does matter is your listening position relative to the speaker.

And one thing I did wrong for years was to pull the speaker out too far from the wall thinking better more accurate bass. But you have comb filtering effects which cause big nulls and bumps in the bass response when in a 18 inch to 2 or so foot out in front of the wall. Best to keep it out over 7+ feet or under a foot or two to shift the comb effect higher in freq so that the amplitude of nulls and peaks is less and bass is less affected. At a nearfield listening distance of about 3-4 feet I think many problems you get at mid field are minimized.

And remember the bass bump you may get with the one speaker may be able to be compensated by a shelf switch on that monitor or by using a little eq for that channel.

As for hiss, I do believe that may be a problem but for my listening levels with JBL 305s it is not an issue. I did own the 308s but got rid of them fairly quickly as the mids were not as natural as the 305s and they were big. Never heard the 306 so they may be a goldilocks.

And I spent decades with passive speakers and an amp on the desktop. None of my fancy or cheap stuff does as well as the JBLs even at the substantially lower price. I have used Kef, JM Reynaud, Polk, JBL Control 1, Klipsch, Elac, PSB, etc. speakers, and amp types from Class D, EL34 tube, vintage receivers, Dayton, cheap chip amps, home class AB amps, and pro Class AB, etc.

I am sure there may be some combos that are magical, but for someone who started out with Dynaco A25s on a dresser for midfield listening and used passives for decades, I think now and the future is powered monitors. If you really have the money for $450 per speaker for passives plus the $$ for a decent amp, I would be seriously looking at upper end powered monitors like Genelecs or the like.

Good luck with the journey, sounds like it will be fun!

 

Thanks! I think I'll go with the JBL 305s, just seems like the best way to dip my toe in this. See if I like it without getting in too deep. I also have existing equipment I can use with the JBL 305 - Schiit Modius and Midgaard.

Purchased the 305. I'll report back in a few months on how I'm getting along with them.

 

My weirdo recommendation for compact speakers against a wall is the ART RM5, but those are hard enough to find outside Canada, nevermind outside North America. They are sorta unique in that they almost have the profile of a flat open baffle speaker. About the size of a really thick textbook; the short depth saves you a ton of desk space or it has vesa mounts so you can pop them up on monitor arms.

 

They do like nice! If I was buying, I'd prefer two independent active speakers, at least in principle.

Some of my regrets in life are about money, by far most of them are about women, but one --- is about speakers.

Having heard Genelec at a meet, I was rather besotted with it. The local-country agent let me know that he had a old pair, boxes never opened, vintage-before-cast-aluminium-curves, at a customer who wanted to pass them on for a silly cheap price. He was even willing to give them a good check over. I let it go. And some say that the early Genelec had the best sound.

So... I always wanted a pair of "real" studio monitors. And didn't take up my best chance.

Still a bargain, I believe, but when first introduced they were silly cheap. Like two for price of one, or even less! Sadly, they were not available at all, here, let alone on such an offer, back then.

But even with my rest-of-life hifi embargo, I don't rule out being a buyer one day. Last time I looked, I think there is only small price difference between 305 and 306?